Tonight's memorial. - The Point.

by nicolaou 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • SixofNine

    Interesting thoughts, Frenchy. I had those thoughts a few times back when I was a true believer, especially when I would hear the "bridge" story. I would not let my mind go too far down that road however. Still, I would get far enough along that thought process to realize that Jesus was NOT really being killed in any sense that we humans understand.

    Now I suppose, some would say that is the point, that neither are we really dead, but only sleeping. But then, the whole point of those stories is to make us feel the agony that God supposedly would have felt. That is where the stories fall apart for me. It was a horrible death, no doubt, but innocent children experience far worse every day, and their loved ones have no hope of seeing them again in three days. Now THAT touches my heart.

    And, as others have noted, the stories play against our feelings of powerless-ness in doing anything, except this ONE thing, to help all of humanity. Not at all the case with God, is it?

  • dedalus

    If I were the author of that nonsense, I'd want to remain anonymous, too.

    It never mentions the two most important details: 1) The father of the son whose blood is sacrificed is the one who invented the plague in the first place. 2) The father could rid the world of the plague with the snap of his fingers.

    Stupid, sick, illogical, sort of like God himself. Maybe that's "the point."


  • mustang


    Dead on. Jesus regained life, albeit in another form. This is a definite case of apples and oranges. So, the analogy is quite flawed, but it's so subtle that it wins a tear-jerking point.

    What is needed is for enough people to remember this situation to bust that logic in the chops whenever it rears it's head.

    On the lighter side: kudos to the cuckoo's nesters. But remember,

    willy, good disclaimer. Hold onto that thought, we will all be using them, eventually.


  • rabotnik

    So willy,

    I'm curious about your poem. Care to share any background info?


    Mr. Mustang,

    re: puns. Are you serious -- or are you just horsing around? Everyone knows puns are the highest form of humor! Read Wm. Shakespeare or ask the Japanese.


  • mustang


    I DID congratulate you (kudo's), say lighter side (off the serious kick to Frenchy) and participate (PUN-ISHMENT is a pun).

    Fogot the all-caps; just horsing around. Kicking up the hells, er hooves. Whin-neee..eee...

    :) :D ;) ^ 8D (just discovered these, hope they work...)


    PS "USE A PUN, GO TO JAIL" is a play on words. Probably local though; there was a law passed here once on the slogan "USE A GUN, GO TO JAIL'.

  • willy_think


    as to the background, well i read the frist post and i must admit it made me mad. to use that comparison of the father and sun at this time of year! it is a mental hell. the farther gives his son that the whole world might be saved!! see how he loves us. this is in contrast what the WTB&TS inc. teachs jehovah who will not save his good JWs through his sacrifice but makes them live as slaves to the WT. how can it be missed at least subconciously it is in your face YOU ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH to get the antidote..... well i was thinking of my father tonight at the KH, not good enough, being hit with this kind of bull sh*t left and right the poem just came off the top of my head continuing your post. but that is were i was at when it came to me

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • rabotnik

    Thanks willy,

    You seem to have many intense feelings in relationship to JWs, your dad, and the whole religious dogma brain-freeze. I'm glad that you can use a creative outlet like poetry to help process your feelings. Keep it up. I liked your poem. And how are you doing with taking care of yourself? Do you have a support system, some friends you can talk to? Hope so.

    The best,

    OK, Mr. Mustang: Your response behooves me to confess I missed the "pun" in "punishment." But I was just horsing around too. Not to nag -- but I've always herd "use an accordian -- go to jail."

    Happy trails to you,

  • nicolaou

    Oh my!
    What a lot of varied responses I got!

    First off, let me make a few things clear. It wasn't my intention to preach or try to offload any guilt onto the reader. No-one should have felt blackmailed, emotionally or otherwise.

    Secondly, I am not the author of the original post, not even it's closing comment. This post was originally made at a catholic forum where it created quite a stir. I copied it to my own site where it drew only one response [apparently it moved the reader to tears of appreciation].

    I wondered whether, at this time of year, it might move a few individuals to think. Let me explain.

    I became an 'inactive' JW nearly two years ago. Like many others here the only reason I have not formally cut all ties with the organisation is for the sake of my family and a few close friends [see thread; Feeling desperate..........].

    However I am quite prepared to state within this community (which I had considered to be less judgemental than the org'), that I am NO LONGER ONE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES.

    That doesn't mean though, and for me this is The Point, that I have lost my faith.

    The original post was really a question. Do you believe in and accept the value of Jesus ransom sacrifice?
    I'm not ashamed to say that I do.

    Does this mean that I can defend weaknesses in the analogy I presented? Of course not. I am fully aware that an omnipotent and caring God COULD 'snap his fingers' and instantly solve the worlds problems and suffering.
    Why doesn't He? You'll have to ask Him. One thing I've learned from my Watchtower years is not to presume to speak for God.

    One thing I'd like to do though is apologise, especially to willy-think, for any hurt I caused. I really am sorry.
    You might not think so but our situations are probably not that disimilar. Since I 'weakened' and began 'falling away' my mother is now terrified for my future. She believes that she may well lose her son at Armageddon because he is 'not good enough'.

    Yes, the original story does fall down - at that point and others. But the question still remains, do you accept the value of the ransom?

    I know that many, on leaving the 'Truth', give up on God completely. That is another terrible indictment on the Watchtower.
    Personally, I'm trying hard to keep my faith but it's a changing and fluid thing - not rigid and rule bound as it was in the past.

    If you, the reader, no longer consider yourself Christian, fine.
    If you no longer believe in the existence of God, fine.

    I'm happy to be among folk here who are tolerant of each others beliefs and backgrounds. I hope you will be tolerant of mine and I hope you will accept my apolgy for any offence I inadvertently caused.



  • joelbear

    Since Jehovah knew that at any point he could resurrect Jesus, I don't see the analogy.

    Jehovah didn't really give up anything, he was in control the whole time.


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