Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

by Viviane 82 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Viviane

  would you not be somewhat obligated to provide some references just like you requested from others in that same thread

  If I were making a claim that was the argument, sure. In this case, the poster already had some information. I suggested that there was a wealth of information out there to be had, but that at this point, there was much to learn and understand to have a proper discussion and in order to have it, the poster look some of it up.

  I never made a claim that required me to present evidence, I am simply asked to provide evidence over and over and over and I had no reason to do someone else work for them.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  But how to avoid confirmation bias?

  The best way to avoid confirmation bias is to release oneself from caring about the outcome (a conclusion) of an argument and, instead, focus on looking for objectively verified information (for purpose of this subject we'll call this: facts). Once you have verifiable information at your disposal then you can use this/these as premises to form logical arguments, which will lead to conclusions without bias.

  Let objectively verified information and valid argument forms decide the conclusions.

  Confirmation bias disappears because you don't care about the conclusion. If, as it turns out, human behavior is the subject of research what I've said does not suggest a person must be amoral. Rather it means a person must be willing to let their morality be guided by facts rather than preference.
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  StarTrekAngel

  Fair enough Viviane. Thanks

  If we extend the idea and consider the context of your participation in the thread, I may mention that you did not enter the thread discussing the matter at hand. You entered with a single line that read "Am I needed here?". With that in mind and your recent answer to me in this thread, I am having a hard time understanding if you meant to act as a moderator of the discussion or if you actually took a stand on the subject. Could you please clarify?

  Thanks
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  Oubliette

  Marvin Shilmer: The best way to avoid confirmation bias is to release oneself from caring about the outcome

  Oh, is that all?

  I agree with you, but know from tons of experience that you've placed a pretty tall order and most folks just ain't gonna do it.

  The other problem is this: if you don't care about the outcome, you likely won't do the work to find it.
  
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  Vidiot

  @ Oubliette...

  Interesting paradox, to say the least.
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  CalebInFloroda

  I have to side with Viviane in reference to avoiding confirmation bias: you need to submit your conclusion to a disinterested party (or better yet, parties) for verification, just like in the scientific method.

  One cannot guarantee that they can distance themselves far enough from a subject they have some investment in. If there was such a way, the scientific method would not require independent validation.
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  CalebInFloroda

  As to finding someone who doesn't care about the outcome to act as a disinterested party, that generally doesn't happen in critical fields. It's very competitive, and more often than not you will find someone who is just dying to prove you wrong if anything, in the process providing a means to either disprove or validate your findings.

  How often do people debate about something raised on this forum? It's human nature to challenge something that is "new" or contrary to what we believe. While this will mean that the independent party is interested in proving you wrong, it does at least provide somewhat of a control.

  In the end validation often takes a party not just one individual.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Oh, is that all?
  I agree with you, but know from tons of experience that you've placed a pretty tall order and most folks just ain't gonna do it.

  If a person is incapable or unwilling to release themselves from preferential outcomes (conclusions) then they will be plagued with confirmation bias.

  The other problem is this: if you don't care about the outcome, you likely won't do the work to find it.

  My remark intended to convey a disinterest in a particular outcome. My remark was not intended to convey disinterest in finding the outcome of a subject of interest. Of course individuals will be more driven to investigate areas of personal interest. This is a major factor in choosing career research areas.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  As to finding someone who doesn't care about the outcome to act as a disinterested party, that generally doesn't happen in critical fields. It's very competitive, and more often than not you will find someone who is just dying to prove you wrong if anything, in the process providing a means to either disprove or validate your findings.

  The point is that a person can have a passion for a subject without having a passion for a particular finding based on research of that subject. We can, for instance, have a passion for hematological science without holding a preference for what we'd like facts to lead to in the form of findings (read: conclusions) of hematological research.

  As for those "just dying to prove you wrong," that's a good thing! Conclusions of arguments deserve no less.
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  DJS

  I'm with Marvin,

  As I've noted, I work each day to be more rational and a better empiricist. My DNA is in the way. I try to make my passion about doing the right thing and achieving the right goals and objectives rather than 'being' right. As long as I keep this in front of me, it is much easier to be an empiricist.

  I struggle but each year gets easier. Spock, that pointy eared hob-goblin, could teach us all a thing or ten.

  I try to reserve my emotions and passion for my children, friends, and beautiful things (art, places, girl parts - you know important stuff).