Discussion With My Dad...Ended Badly.

by Valis 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Sorry to hear things went the way they did, but I found it interesting what you had to say. I don't see my parents ever leaving either and the soft approach just doesn't cut it when it seems hopeless.

    At this point, I am glad my parents have nothing to do with me because the other way is just too stressful. I am truly embarrassed for their ability to lie to themselves. Exactly how do they go through life knowing they shun their children because they believe something different than them? How can they possibly feel good about that?

    I would laugh too at the thought of them thinking they are going to "live forever". At what point does this belief become sheer stupidity? And only 5 hours a week to be a JW? That is a laugh too. It takes nearly 20 to be a reasonable publisher not counting the stress times just knowing there is a meeting later on that evening.

    I certainly wouldn't feel bad about unloading on your parents. When our thinking is so far gone we need a good ass-kicking every now and again. Sometimes it is a bad call to do so, but sometimes you just have to tell it like it is. Have a good thanksgiving.

    Path

  • Beans
    Beans

    Valis, I would love to tell my father that I hated all that stuff too! But my folks are pretty cool about the JW stuff and don`t really care or want too know if I am an apostate. This is strange seeing my Dad was the PO in our Cong, they never said boo when I got my TAT or when I get tanked. I brought up all the issues with my Dad like blood and the UN and he actually took the literature and said he would look into it, but wow he never got back to me.

    Good job Brother!

    Beans

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    don't give up Valis. U have more power than u think. I know , b/c my boys got me out of the org-or at least as far out out i am now. the comment u dad made about "his boys dying' or whatver, well, it really tugs on a parents heart strings not to be with their kids. And not to see the grand kids-well i would compromise any way to be able to see my grand kids.Eventuallly i finally heard my sons when they said"mom we just don't believe this anymore".Trust me valis, your parents want to see their gandkids-Org or no Org.

  • nativenyr23
    nativenyr23

    (((((((((valis)))))))))) so sorry to hear about this. But it's pretty typical. I had several years of it, and when they figured out that they wouldn't get to see their grandkids if they allienated me....they finally came around [used the "she's not living in sin anymore" excuse so now we can talk to her again].... and "ignored" my blatant apostateness. We never discuss it...but it's there. in my pagan holiday decorations and in my thanksgiving turkey (that they are gonna come eat cuz Turkey's on "sale"). I know it's hypocritical, but we just avoid the topic now. life is too damn short. and it feels like a losing battle when the indoctrination runs so deep.

    please have a happy turkey day w/your kids and with your new extended family because that's essentially what we all are for each other here on this board. I consider all my new found friends the family I lost and have now found that will stay by me no matter what my life choices are. UNCONDITIONALLY. Much love to you and your kids and have a warm holiday.

    Diana

  • Iwasyoungonce
    Iwasyoungonce

    Valis,

    Do you feel better having it all out?

    It's kind of like surgery. If you have a cancer sometimes you need to have it removed. Now your position is clear. There is little turning back. I took your route with my jw family. They would not listen to me for over a year. Finally I wrote a letter expressing my feelings and my view of the jw's. Maybe I should post it. My family then started attacking and I stood my ground; Like you. But after one round I saw it as futile. I really don't like these people. They are shallow and backbiters. I have talked to the rest of the family and they said that my inlaws were like this even before the cult. There they are among others just like them. They have no respect for anyone and demand it from everyone. I have left them to themselves, even in my mind.

    If you want a relationship with your Father then read Hassen and start using stratagy. You can have a relationship if it is worth the time, heartache, and stress to you. No one is unsaveable. But for me I focus on those who have yet to convert, the ones who do not know the true nature of this sect. And those who are or, desire to be in control of their actions and want to be responsible for themselves. Real people are cool. You can really trust them. You can freely love them and not worry.

    There are all types of people who will not think for themselves. In and out of someones family. Remember to choose your battles. Don't let them choose them for you. My email is open for you if you want to talk.

    For what it is worth I respect you for standing up for yourself. For being honest about your feelings. It takes balls to do that.

  • blondie
    blondie

    Whenever someone pulls the "you're going to die at Armageddon" card, I just say, "Why don't we let the real judge decide and his designee, God and Jesus." It always amazes me when any JW thinks they have been appointed judge and jury for anyone, even themselves. They think just because they go the KH, spend at least an hour each month being seen in the ministry, and manage not to be DF'd, they are guaranteed "life everlasting on a paradise earth."

    Zephaniah 2 2 before it's too late.
    The LORD has set a time
    when his fierce anger
    will strike like a storm
    and sweep you away.
    3 If you humbly obey the LORD,
    then come and worship him.
    If you do right and are humble,
    perhaps you will be safe
    on that day
    when the LORD
    turns loose his anger.

  • Swan
    Swan

    Damn meddlesome CO! They are always sticking their holier-than-thou noses into the personal family business of people, and looking down those same noses at you while they are doing it. Such arrogance! I'm really upset by their high and mighty interference in what is basically none of their business! This really irks me Valis. I'm sorry your father caved in to this kind of pressure. It is so hard when your own family will listen to some smug, smarmy, CO instead of their own flesh and blood relatives.

    BTW, how do you suppose the CO knew about your "apostate" associations?

    This sure ticks me off.! You're a good person and your father is so blinded he can't even see it. I am feeling very frustrated for you. I hope you can enjoy the holiday without him. Perhaps some day he will come to his senses.

    Tammy

  • jws
    jws

    Sorry to hear about your family. I can really identify. Same with my dad. I never really attack his beliefs, though I might occasionally ask him leading questions, like "hear about the child molestation scandal"? But every so often he starts on this "my boys are going to die at Armageddon and I'll have to tell your mother she'll never see her boys again" stuff. It usually angers me and I unload too. Last time he asked if I ever think about the truth. I told him that "I think that what he calls the truth is a bunch of lies". He seems stunned, forgetting (or blocking) all of the things I brought up last time we went through this excercise. I again bring up issues like 1914 and he claims ignorance and presents no defense, then brings up the usual "where else are you going to go? Even IF we're wrong, who else is better?" argument. The JWs were the ones that always taught me, if your religion isn't the truth, you need to leave it. So I did.

    I end up assuring him that I do believe in God and that I do study the Bible and that I don't believe I need an organization. And if he thinks God will punish me anyway, he's just going to have to live with that.

    At this point, he either decides arguing and getting into a fight will be real painful for him or he has accepted that maybe I'm not all wrong and maybe he should let God decide - maybe my faith will "save" me. Either way, the issue tends to go away for quite a while. We still meet and do things together when I visit and I talk to him long-distance every week. He has not taken the "new light" to shun me.

    I have no illusions of being able to deprogram him and I expect these things to rise again. I try not to be confrontational, as that only risks our relationship. But when he brings up these condescending attitudes. That we apostates are just spoiled brats that didn't get our way.... That he knows I'm doomed. It just gets to me. I can't hold it back, because I know he's the one following the false organization. Yet I leave him to that and accept it. Believe me, I've wanted to go toe-to-toe with him and he would not be able to defend his beliefs. But I hold back. Why not agree to disagree?

    The way you've been playing it is the same way I've been playing it and, except for the occasional conversation, we have a happy father-son relationship. It sounded like that's the way it was going for you too. He obviously wasn't hung-up on the shunning policy for you.

    But, keeping a low-profile is important too. My father, and probably nobody else from my JW days, knows who I am or that I post here. Not that I hold it against you, but your profile has your name, your e-mail account is open, and you have a picture on your profile. JWs can ID you are and report back. Your views are not hidden and you even organized an Apostafest. You (and everyone else posting) must realize that by being that open, these things can get back to your family and your old congregation and things might get harder on you. I think it's one thing to drift away and another to be actively anti-JW. Your decision is your own and I'm not saying it's a bad one - just one that can have effects.

    I hope things cool down and you reestablish your relationship. Have a very happy Thanksgiving.

  • Valis
    Valis

    Thank you all very much for your thoughts..robbies, Namewithheld, JT, petty, Eman, cornish, tink, joe, els, musky, mouthy, mary, freedom, Big T, crazy151, witw, megs, xenawarrior, safe4adults, beckyboop, lyin, TheStar (my therapist), Path, Bro Beans, wednesday, native, iwasyoung, blondie, swan, jws, et al.... I appreciate each and every word. A big thanks to those of you who took the time to email me w/even more encouragment. Also a big thanks to the ladies for Thanksgiving recipes, which will have me thinking of you all as I feast on Thursday.

    swan, it doesn't help he is one of my dad's buddies either...I haven't a clue except maybe the fact that I had my name and return address listed on the last big mail out that was sent to all the congregations in the Dallas/Fort Worth area.regarding pedophilia.. *LOL* The same CO getting copies of all those...you're dam right he knows exactly who I am...*LOL*

    jws, I know the descisions I make have consequences, but at this point in my life they are consequenses that have a doble edge as it were, and ones I am willing to live with one way or another. As far as my openness about JWs is concerned, I wouldn't have it any other way. Happy TKSGVNG to you and yours as well.

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    Valis, if your mom and dad are typical jw, they will not listen to anything negitive about Org.(doctrines) The way my boys got me to doubt the jw is by telling me a religion should not break up a family. And i knew they were rijght. It took a while, but i stopped going to meeting and wanting to spend sunday with my grandkids. More kids have gotten their parents out of org than u can imagine.

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