by shera 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • shera

    You may all know this but I copied this from another persons thread on another website about the NWT and the Greek scriptures.

    The men that comprised the Translation Committee were not even Greek scholars qualified to translate the Bible. These men were: N.H. Knorr, F. W. Franz the 4th President, A.D. Schroeder, G.D. Gangas and M. Henschel (write to Personal Freedom Outreach, P.O. Box 26062, St. Louis, Missouri 63136 for paper documentation). All met together in these translation sessions. The translation committee requested that the names of the translators remain secret even after their deaths (Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 258).

    Franz was asked in a courtroom in Scotland, "Why the secrecy?" he said, "Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto." The attorney replied, "Writers of books and translators do not always get glory and honour for their efforts, do they?" (Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham, M.P., P.C., Scottish Court of Sessions, p. 92 Nov. 1954).

    In 1954, in a Scotland trial, Fred Franz, then head of the Watchtower Editorial Board, admitted that he himself was the one who had checked the accuracy of the translation and recommended its publication. (Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.88.)

    The following is from the trial transcript: -

    (Q): Insofar as translation of the Bible itself is undertaken, are you responsible for that?

    (A): I have been authorized to examine a translation and determine its accuracy and recommend its acceptance in the form in which it is submitted.

    Later, Franz was asked about his own involvement in the translating(Douglas Walsh v. The Right Honorable James Latham

    Clyde, M.P., P.C., etc., Scotland, 1954, (1958 ed.).p.92)

    (Q) : Were you yourself responsible for the translation of the Old Testament?

    ( A ) : Again I cannot answer that question...

    Here, under oath, Franz refused to confirm or deny he was the translator of the Hebrew text. Why wouldn't he say that he did not translate the Old Testament? The court also wondered "why" and asked (ibid)

    (Q): Why the secrecy?

    (A): Because the committee of translation wanted it to remain anonymous and not seek any glory or honour at the making of a translation, and having any names attached thereto.

    23 out of 51
    Why is it the writers of the New Testament books identified their authorship by their names, we know they were not seeking honor.

    The facts speak for themselves. The real reason would be that the translators could not be checked since they had no qualifications and anyone investigating this could not find anyone to assume responsibility for the translation. A shrewd plan indeed.

    According to Raymond Franz, only Fred Franz had "sufficient knowledge of the Bible languages to attempt translation of this kind. He had studied Greek for two years in the University of Cincinnati but was only self taught In Hebrew." Raymond Franz, Crisis of Conscience (Atlanta: Commentary Press, 1983), 50

    Not one of the men had ever studied Greek, and wouldn't know the difference between an alpha or a omega. Only three of the five had even finished high school. Of those three only one went on to College. His name was Fredrick Franz, the same man who became the President of the Jehovah's Witnesses. He did begin at the University of Cincinatti but only completed two years. He then dropped out of College after the first semester in 1913 because he believed what Russell told him, that Christ was returning in 1914. He does not have even the most basic college degree, and certainly does not possess a degree for advanced study of the Bible. In fact, outside of the Watchtower circle Franz is not recognized by anyone as a scholar.

    As M. James Penton, a former Jehovah's Witness and historian, has written, "to all intents and purposes the New World Translation is the work of one man-Frederick Franz." M. James Penton, Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1985), 174.

    The men who make up the "translation committee" were self-appointed men lacking any adequate schooling or background in biblical languages unable to function as Bible Translators. Their purpose was not to translate the Scripture into a modern version of the Bible but to justify their theology to their people and have ammunition against Christianity as it is practiced today.

    The New World Translation is a fabrication with no scholarship involved. It was specifically created to make the Bible agree their preconceived theology. It was made for their people to believe WT doctrine and uphold their false belief that Jesus is Michael the Archangel not God.

    24 out of 51
    Today many Witnesses claimed that Franz was a Rhodes Scholar and a scholar of Hebrew and Greek. The Rhodes Scholarship Trust (Wesleyan University, Middletown, Conn. 06457) stated that Franz was never considered for a Rhodes Scholarship; similarly a Scottish Court of Sessions of Nov. 1954, pp. 102, 103, in which Franz himself testified, made it clear that Franz could not read, speak nor translate the Hebrew language.

    Under oath at a trial in Scotland

    As a Bible scholar Franz would have to know the Hebrew Language. Mr. MacMillan, a former leader of the Jehovah's Witnesses, said, "He is also a scholar of Hebrew..."(FAITH ON THE MARCH, 1957, p. 182.)

    Mr. Franz, under oath in a trial in Scotland, was asked: (Walsh Trial, P. 7).

    Scottish Court of Sessions in November, 1954.

    (Q): I think you are able to read and follow the Bible in Hebrew ....

    (A). Yes.

    The next day, he was put to the test. Could he really follow the Bible in Hebrew? Franz was asked to translate a simple Bible text at Genesis 2:4:6

    (Q): I think we come to the name Jehovah in the forth verse, don't we, of the second chapter of Genesis ... [page 34]

    (A). Yes.

    (Q): You, yourself, read and speak Hebrew, do you?

    (Remember, Franz had admitted to this the previous day)

    (A): I do not speak Hebrew.

    (The examiner was surprised to hear this)

    (Q): You do not!

    (A). No.

    Q): Can you, yourself, translate that into Hebrew?

    (A): Which?

    (Q): That fourth verse of the second chapter of Genesis?

    (A): You mean here?

    (Q). Yes?

    (A): No, I won't attempt to do that.

    What Franz "wouldn't attempt" to translate into Hebrew is what many have said as a simple exercise an average first or second-year Hebrew student in seminary would be able to do. Franz could neither speak Hebrew nor translate the English to Hebrew. The President of the Watchtower allowed Jehovah's Witnesses to believe he is a Bible scholar having an education in Biblical languages. The facts show otherwise. He is not a scholar. In fact, there is not one Bible scholar among the Watchtower leaders. There couldnt be one in good conscience because of their theology and what they have done in their translation.

    Here is another link http://www.letusreason.org/JW38.htm

  • musky

    Hey Shera, I thought you were here for "friends and fun" only? Sounds like your gettin pretty serious here. Interesting post. I could never figure out why it was so hard to get info from the NWT translators, or even knew who they were for that matter. Thats asking a lot for the witnesses. I mean to follow this translation, and not know who the translators are.

  • shera

    I am here for fun and friends

    Don't want to debate it,just wanted to resond to someone, here stating the NWT is the best bible translated from the greek scripts.

  • herk

    I see nothing wrong in a person or two or three getting together to translate the Bible. It's often been done before, even by persons who were not known as scholars and who had only a limited knowledge of Bible languages.

    What I think is silly is to boast that yours is the work of scholars when you won't even say who those scholars are. It's pure and simple conceit that moves a person to say they didn't want men to receive any glory for producing it. Could it be they didn't want the men who produced it to get the criticism that would surely come from a translation where mistakes were made? No translation is perfect or even the best. Any man or group that claims they've produced such deserves the criticism that they get.


  • shera

    Here are a few quotes taken from the link I posted

    Dr. Julius R. Mantey (who is even recognized by the Watchtower as a Greek scholar since they quote his book on page 1158 of their Kingdom Interlinear Translation): calls the Watchtower translation of John 1:1 "A grossly misleading translation. It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John l:1 'the Word was a god. 'But of all the scholars in the world, so far as we know, none have translated this verse as Jehovah's Witnesses have done." "I was disturbed because they (the Watchtower) had misquoted me in support of their translation. I called their attention to the fact that the whole body of the New Testament was against their view. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus is glorified and magnified--yet here they were denigrating Him and making Him into a little god of pagan concept . . .1 believe it's a terrible thing for a person to be deceived and go into eternity lost, forever lost because somebody deliberately misled him by distorting the Scripture!. . . Ninety-nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and who have helped translate the Bible are in disagreement with the Jehovah's Witnesses. People who are looking for the truth ought to know what the majority of the scholars really believe. They should not allow themselves to be misled by the Jehovah's Witnesses and end up in hell.

    In order to present the appearance of scholarly backing for their translation of this verse, the Society had to intentionally misquote Dr. Julius R. Mantey and H.E. Dana's Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament. Both Dana and Mantey firmly held to the historic Christian belief in the Triune God as is evident throughout their Grammar. The late Dr. Mantey had on several occasions issued statements concerning the misquotation of his statements by the Witnesses, even writing a letter to the Watchtower headquarters in Brooklyn demanding references and quotes from his book to be removed from their publications. They ignored his request!

  • onacruse

    Isn't it incredible that, on the one hand, the WTS berates the "wise ones" of this world as unspiritual self-centered fools, but then turns right around and proudly displays any shred of academic approval they can pry from scholars?


    Edited by - onacruse on 23 November 2002 13:55:1

  • herk

    Here I go defending the WT, and I hate to have to do it. But in all fairness it should be pointed out that Dr. Mantley was an ardent trinitarian and a believer in hell-fire. While there is bias on the NWT side, there was also bias coming from him.

    It would be fairer to agree with those scholare who claim that at John 1:1 hardly any translation captures the precise sense in English that the apostle was conveying in the Greek of his day.

  • herk


    Amen. It's just as incredible as the WT policy that for decades frowned on a college education while rapidly promoting to prominent positions those members who got an academic education before they became JWs.


  • Gopher

    I agree with Herk, there's lunacy on BOTH sides of the John 1:1 issue. There's reasonable arguments that could be made for either translation.

    But for the scholar to inject his emotional "anyone who believes the JW interpretation of the verse is going straight to hell" reeks of fear-mongering, propaganda and bias. Of course the JW's threaten those who don't believe their interpretations either.

    If a person were supposedly misled, what about the verse where Paul says that God forgives times of ignorance?

  • GermanXJW

    I think it is not that important to know who translated a Bible unless you want to launch some ad hominem attacks.

    The result should stand on its own and I think the NWT is not much more biased than any other translation. Okay, it is the only that is biased from a JW point of view.

    I don't see grave mistakes in the translations concerning the divinity of Christ and I agree with "herk" that Mantey's criticism is based on its Trinity origin.

    The only biased rendering for which I found no support at all is Hebrew 12:23 translating "pneuma" with "spiritual life".

    I would never use it alone and it is not my preferred readable version but it is interesting to compare. There are several NW renderings I would prefer to other translations.

    Have you all read Rolf Furuli's book on bias in Bible translation? I found it not that bad.

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