Take a look at the information posted under Bible Research concerning Matthew 24.
Edited by - apocalypse on 2 November 2002 8:30:54
Signs of the Last Days?
by Lin 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Lin
Thanks for your comments. Buster, on the thread that Valis posted, there was someone there who mentioned that book, which I've yet to read, but intend to. I will also read the information about Matthew 24 as well. To be honest, I don't really remember alot about the whole King of the North and of the South, other than the part where the U.S. is supposedly one of the "kings". And, wasn't Russia supposedly the other king, and we were supposedly to be in some monumental attack/war with them and all that jazz? I vaguely recall hearing or reading somewhere the Society has backed off of the belief that Russia is the other king? I'm asking, I really don't remember. I didn't do alot of study into Daniel either, so you guys/gals can clue me on that if you can until I have the opportunity to read it all myself. Geez, I have so much to read! I have the NIV Bible and the NIV/NASB Bible, and just today I bought "The Message" by Eugene Peterson. So I look forward to some really good reading.
The subject is the Last Days is of course a big one for me, since I've got so much stuff my dad said stuck in my head. Like, he used to say that our country would become much like a communist state/military state; that things like the internet would be eliminated totally; that jw's would be put into "safe places" provided by God, like in jails, concentration camp type places because "God wants to keep his people safe while He destroys everyone else", and things like that. Plus, I can't get out of my head the scripture that talks about the Great Tribulation being something bigger and the worst occurrence mankind had ever imagined, or something to that effect. (It's been awhile since I've opened a Bible). And the only thing I can think of that could/would be the biggest, worst thing I can personally imagine is a massive nuclear war. Which, given the situation we're in now with Osama-Yo-Mama and that other ass*&%#, it's been on my mind alot. So, please comment and post any references you like, or suggested reading material to your hearts content. I need all the help with this that I can.
Believe me, I'd LOVE to let all this built-in, taught fear of the Last Days just slip right out of my mind, but I need some help with this. So, please.......comment. I appreciate all the help.
-
Kingpawn
Lin,
My personal belief is that there will be no nuclear war widespread enough to pose a serious threat to continued life on Earth.
I can't say I'd rule out us seeing tactical nukes being used. I'd imagine it might be by a country that fanatically hates Israel and doesn't mind the chance of WWIII starting, or maybe two countries like India and Pakistan, out of hatred and machismo, or Hussein in a "it's now or never" scenario during a war. (Oh, unlike the WBTS, I'll admit here and now I messed up when I said we'd be at war with Iraq by now.) He might also do it as a bluff. IOW, by their use he confirms he has them, and we can't disprove his claims about his having more or he can send them farther than the Middle East, like London. So it buys him time for various purposes.
My main reason for paragraph one is that I can't see God allowing all His work to be ruined. Massive usage would render huge areas of the planet uninhabitable, and destroy farmland. There is the possibility of starvation and climate change from "nuclear winter." And it's not like we can raise crops on the Antartic icecap. BTW, there might well be more heating of the Earth from the smoke (a) darkening the planet, making heat build up, and (b) the heat not being allowed to escape into space (maybe--I'm no physicist), contrary to my earlier mention of "winter." Or ash from burning forests and what not fall on the icecaps, darkening them, and raising the Earth's temperature. Result: the icecaps melt, the sea levels rise, Florida and other low-lying areas vanish, social disruption from refugees moving inland, and the inrush of fresh water would affect salinity and sea life.
So while we have the capability to end ourselves I don't think we'll be allowed to do so. For those who don't believe we have such a Guardian Spirit (and they may well be right), I haven't any assurances to give on this point. And to some, all I wrote above is going to provoke a lot of incredulity that anyone could possibly be at peace on this issue with such a slender thread. But it's either trust in that or drive myself mad with fear worrying.
There were other signs too, like the mark in the hand or forehead. There's a website http://www.digitalangel.net/index.htm that tells about microchips that can be implanted in pets and people for a number of uses. Haven't been to the site in awhile but it makes for scary reading.
As far as the GT, if this was seen in a vision by John, then by his standards and knowledge of history up until then, a nuclear war would be the greatest thing seen. He'd have no concept of the power of the atom. If it's using Holy Spirit, which I think it will be, then nuclear power pales beside that. IOW, if we know warheads are headed here, we've had drills and what not to handle that; it's familiar. Something that can throw people into utter panic where they'd call for mountains to fall on them and protect them would have to be worse.
-
Lin
Thanks Kingpawn, I appreciate your comments. I grew up with so much fear of the End Times, that it's really hard to shake that off. "Keeping on the watch" and all that jazz, watching events unfolding throughout the world, still creates fear in me over, "Could this be IT?" Could this threat of nuclear war be the beginning of Armageddon, etc. I don't know if I should or want to read that thread you mentioned right now, but I might later. I've been doing so much reading and research, reading many threads on various topics, that I think I'm on overload today.
-
SixofNine
One comforting thing (LOL) to realize, Lin, is that if there is nuclear war (and I don't find that likely, but I do think my lifetime will see nuclear terrorism, and incredibly harsh retaliation), it won't have anything at all to do with the bible. That fact won't keep less than intelligent people from beating the square peg of reality into the round file that is bible prophecy. But I actually do find it comforting, in that world event happen because of what is going on RIGHT NOW, not because of what some mushroom eating religious nut wrote 2 thousand years ago (and yes, I know that people, right now, are being influenced by what they believe about what was written 2 thousand years ago, but that is their beliefs at work, not bible prophecy at work).
And what that means is that what humans are doing RIGHT NOW, can also have a hand in preventing terrible wars.
So true about the king of the north, Meta... and world demographics and affairs being what they are, it ain't gonna happen. Nope, you'll have to resort to being JW like if you want to find a fullfillment of that particular prophecy from here on out.
-
VeniceIT
Hey Lin, I hope you enjoy that Version. It's very 'fresh' and modern, and actually quiet funny.
I have a few more discussions on my website as well.
Ven
-
iggy_the_fish
Whenever I heard about wars on the news, I'd think "It's a sign of the end" (TM), and then whenever I heard about efforts toward peace on the news, I'd think about that "Whenever it is they are saying peace and security" (TM) (or whatever the quote is) thing, and I'd again think it was a sign of the end. EVERY political event, positive and negative was spun as a sign of the end comming. Then, I seem to remember people (non-JW) being nasty to me was "the love of the greater number cooling off" (TM) or persecution by the devil, and then other people being nice to me was either the devil trying to stumble me by being as "cunning as a serpent" (TM) or (and this is the cult spinning at it's most bizarre imo) "A tribute to Jehovah's marvelous creative powers that, even in this Devil controlled system, people still retain some of the love that was put into Adam and Eve". I swear that words to that effect once appeared in the Watchtower, I think they were trying to explain why, if this system was really devil controlled, we weren't all eating/murdering/torturing each other all the time.
War AND peace both signs of the end? Kindness AND cruelty both signs of the end? Hats off to the WT for getting us to swallow them all! It's mind control at it's most subtle and brilliant imho. And it's not at all easy or straightforward to get rid of it from my mind. B*STARDS!!! (sorry for the language folks)
If I think about them for a good long time, the things that make up the so-called composite sign of the end (as the WT spins it anyway, the Matthew bits, the Revelation bits and all the other bits) are so vague and self contradictory that ANYTHING could be interpreted as "proof" that we are approaching the great tribulation at break-neck speed.
Laying my cards on the table, I'm no longer a believer in God, at least not the God of the bible. However, if I still were, and he created me with the reasoning powers I posess, and if it was in his mind to end this system and he was going to give me a sign, I'd expect it to be absolutely clear and unambiguous and in no way open to interpretation. Otherwise it's an unfair test, and I wouldn't want to believe in an unfair or unjust God.
These are just my opinions, and thoughts that help me when I find myself worrying about this issue. I don't expect them to work for everyone but maybe there's something in them you can use.
Iggy the fish.