Conveniently unused scripture

by Pleasuredome 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    I think it depends on what your looking to read - a nice story, or indeed teachings in a phrase. I use a revised standard version which includes the books that other groups leave out (1), but I usually compare that, often with versions of king james and others on bible gateway (2) though that doesn't include all the books that are used, and I may use a lexicon which you can find at (3). At mass I think we use the Jerusalem bible which I do like the sound of, but so far I can't find an online version.

    1. http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rsv/
    2. http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible
    3. http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/

    paduan

  • gumby
    gumby

    Now Jehovah is the Spirit; and where the spirit of Jehovah is, there is freedom

    OK, freedom from what?

    Let's suppose you went off a cliff in your car and you are trapped in your car mangled in some tree's that caught you. You cry and beg for God to rescue you.......then after 3 days of not being able to move, cold and starving....you die. You called, you cried, for help from him....and no one came and you died. Where is the freedom? Freedom from what?!!!!!! A hope you have that God will take care of you? Do we have to die before he hears our plea's?

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    • freedom from bondage - to fears and desires
    • freedom from fear of loss - by giving it all
    • freedom from fear of the unknown - by welcoming the Adventure
    • freedom from fear of punishment - by trusting and knowing Goodness
    • freedom from injustice - through not co-operating
    • freedom from tyranny - by the life that it cannot control
    • freedom - even leave of this body

    Do we have to die before he hears our plea's?

    Can you really hear your pleas - the plea of your soul? Is it for some more fixed up flesh, or something else?

    Did you notice when you read the bible that John said "whatever we ask for in His name", but Paul prayed for a thorn to be removed and it wasn't - and yet Satan asked for Job's body and he got it - what was Paul's plea, really.

    paduan

    Edited by - a paduan on 29 October 2002 22:55:31

  • bchamber
    bchamber

    Someone on one of the other topics, when he found out that I am an expert on English Bible translations, made a statement to me "you can therefore attest that the New World Translation Bible...is the most scholarly Bible in circulation. It is certainly a refreshing translation that brings the Creators message into our living language".

    I would like for you to read my response to that person. It follows with some additional info.

    Yes, the NWT is easy to read and understand, mainly, because it was written in the English we use today.

    However, there is NO perfect translation of the Bible. There is always something lost when translating from one language into another. Also, ALL Bible translators are bias mainly because of their own religious beliefs.

    This is also true of the NWT.

    Knowing that, you can then understand my next statement. All translations are the Word of God. It doesn't matter how well the translation is or how bad it is, they are all the Word of God. Do translators make mistakes as well? You bet they do. Does that make their work something less than the Word of God?

    The NWT does have a lot of good points that speaks for the translators, if that is what they were. Were they bias in their work? Yes, they were as can be seen in many scriptures. This is NOT the place to get into that.

    In answer to your unasked question, yes I do use the NWT just as I do my other 1,510 different English translations that I have. I do have a copy of every Bible the WTB&TS published. This includes the two different copies of the Emphatic Diaglott by B. Wilson that they published. Did you know there were two different ones? Until I wrote an article about it, I don't think many other people knew that fact. The WTB&TS does not state anywhere that they changed Wilson's Diaglott. I found the change and confronted them with it and they gave me all kinds of reasons which just doesn't justify changing someone else's work without stating so on the title page.

    One last item, would I recommend the NWT to people? Yes I would. However, I would want them to know the above facts first.

    The NWT has a lot of very good points that would recommend it. However, it is no where near a perfect translation. The men who worked on this Bible may not have been fluent in the original languages and may have taken the good from this translation and that one to put the NWT together (much the same as the KJV translators did when putting the KJV together. The KJV was not a new translation. The fact of the matter is this; 90% of the N.T. is Tyndale's, the very person the King and the church had put to death for making an English translation.) They did use some very good expressions that are not in any other translation that I have investigated and so they did do some original translating on their own.

    Another point you may not realize is the the men who worked on the KJV did exactly the same thing as the NWT men did. The KJV men were directed to follow 15 guidelines in putting together a new Bible. One of them was to take the good from the previous translations to make their KJV. 90% of the NT is Tyndale's N.T. They took parts of Coverdales Bible, Great Bible, Bishops' Bible, Rheims/Douay Bible, Geneva Bible, along with very little new translations of their own and made the most important work of all time. So don't criticize the men who put the NWT together. It is still God's word.

    Oh, one thing I noticed from one of the other replies. Yes, you can use almost any other translation when reading the WT and Awake magazines. Why, because they quote from them when it supports their viewpoint. If you were to use just your own translation when reading the magazines, you will find a lot of places that do not agree with your Bible. That is where you must be very careful.

    Let me take a small amount of space to show you why I collect English Bible translations.

    I now have approx. 1,510 different English translations of the Bible and parts thereof and many (around 200) non-canonical books as well.

    Its true that my collection might be said to be several collections - - but where does one stop? What is the Bible? What are the limits of inclusion in the Bible? The Jews believe that the Bible stops with Malachi. But up to about 120 yrs. ago, when the Jew used an English version, they had to use the King James, or it and a few selections of corrections. What makes the Apocrypha a part of the Bible? The Catholics? Ah, no, the King James Bible always had its version of the Apocrypha. The King James Bible always included a version of the Apocrypha, even though most Catholic translations dont include 2nd Esdras and the Prayer of Manasses. The books that were not specifically included - - The Pseudepigrapha (Apocryphal, both the Old Testament and New Testament) - - need to be "available" in order to examine their important value in early Christian teachings and also to see why they were excluded.

    Some ministers and lay people believe that paraphrases should not be included in this work, because some of these paraphrases take extreme liberties with the text. I have run across some that are pretty padded. So I classified Josephus "Antiquities of the Jews" as a padded paraphrase of the historical portions of the Old Testament. Did I stretch his intention too far?

    Where does the N.T. stop? The Syriac claim that Revelations and some short books preceding are not part of the canon. Some Church Fathers have accepted other titles such as the Shepherd of Hermas. And the old Uncials included 1st. Clement and others. Are we going to let Catholic councils refuse us the permission to examine the evidence?

    What is Muhammadanism but an offshoot from Christianity? It refers to the Bible in places and seems to tell a different account of what happened in the few instances they "compare." If I "must know that much" surely accounts didnt stop there, that claim non-human origin. So, would it suit one better if I called it a Scripture in English collection?

    "Bible History" as researched by modern scholarship dont do more than intrigue the curiosity. I want to examine the ancient written evidence myself. "Theology" doesnt interest me from modern viewpoints (although I do read a lot of it). I want to see what it is based on. If I am to know truth, surely I need to know it for myself, and not somebody elses digest and opinion of it. What did they believe "then"?

    Your reaction to all this may show you that I am not a Bible collector for collecting sake, but for understanding. I liked English little enough in school. I have no desire to be bogged down in the technicalities of the original languages even if the original autographs were to be found. Variant translations seem the ideal way of understanding the opinions of what was originally written, though there is no full equivalency to be expected between languages. Therefore, we need translations that better reveal how the original expressed itself (literal), translations that express the thought that the translator "understood" and paraphrases which bring out the opinions of what scholars conclude was understood by the original readers.

    Thus, our 1510 or more translations and versions.

    I, personally, use the RSV, Green's Interlinear, ERV for my study Bibles. However, I do use whatever is necessary in order to better understand.

    My most favorite Bible is a small translation of the Psalms by King James, dated 1632. Did any of you know that King James was a scholar and did a translation himself?

    One other tidbit is that I have approx. 10 different scripture comparisons on the Web at a JW site and I am NOT a JW. If interested, I will give whoever the address.

    Yes, I am an expert in English translations of the Bible.

    Edited by - bchamber on 29 November 2002 13:43:1

  • Trotafox
    Trotafox

    bchamber: Very interesting and informative. Can you comment on the following because this scripture bugs me:

    I looked up Luke 23:43 in the WTS Greek Interlinear (it's the only one I have). The NWT places the comma after today. Their footnote reads: ""Today." Wescott and Hort text puts a comma in Greek text before the word for "today." In the original Greek no comma is found. Hence we omit comma before "today."

    Then they then turn around and put the comma after "today" instead in the NWT. WHY? Could it be as Shera stated:

    You can see clearly that the comma was placed in this place to take away from the heavenly hope to anyone who believes in Jesus. No other translation has a comma in this spot. Why? Because this is how the WTS wants the JW's to believe.

    Why did Westcott & Hort choose to put the comma in front? OR is this just one of those things that is left up to interpretation? Evidently, the NWT wants to interpret it to take away the heavenly hope from all who believe in Jesus except for (after twisting up Revelations scriptures) their precious 144,000 anointed...all JW's, of course? Sick.

    Really would like your comment bchamber. I have to run out to shop a bit but I'll be back later.

    Trot

    P.S. Edited for quote correction

    Edited by - Trotafox on 29 November 2002 13:51:6

  • Trotafox
    Trotafox

    bttt

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit