The "faithful slave" truth or lie?

by apocalypse 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ozziepost

    G'day apocalypse,

    Thanks for presenting your thesis for us to read.

    Whilst agreeing with you in the thrust of your argument, I should like to "pick up" on this point:

    If they did, the reader would quickly recognize that the Watchtower's "faithful slave" doctrine had a fatal flaw, as Matthew 24:44 would bear out that verse 45 has not yet been fulfilled.

    I don't see how their interpretation of verse 44 is out of harmony with verse 45. How so? The "prophecy" is written as if it had indeed happened. Hence in the reported speech context, looking back in time, it could indeed be asked "Who is the faithful & discreet slave?" etc

    So I don't see that you can rely on that as an argument.

    I hasten to add that my own reading of the Bible led me to conclude that this is not a prophecy fulfilled in the emergence of the WTBTS.

    Thanks for posting, and welcome aboard.

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • link

    Hi Ozzie and Apocalypse

    I think that what is meant here is that the Watchtower teaching regarding Matthew 24:44 has fulfilment at Armageddon whereas 24:45 was fulfilled 1914-19.

    I also believe that the context of these two verses in the Scriptures show that they take place at the same time i.e. Armageddon.

    Apocalypse please correct me if I do not have this right. Good post by the way!


  • JosephMalik

    I don't see how their interpretation of verse 44 is out of harmony with verse 45. How so? The "prophecy" is written as if it had indeed happened. Hence in the reported speech context, looking back in time, it could indeed be asked "Who is the faithful & discreet slave?" etc

    So I don't see that you can rely on that as an argument.


    The problem is that it is the wrong argument. Yes this servant has already been appointed and was in fact already being selected during our Lords stay here on earth. You are correct if your views acknowledged this and I think they do since you exclude the WTBS delayed application of this statement to the 1900s which of course is false:

    Matt. 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    And who would this servant be? Why none other than the our Lords disciples consisting at that time of Apostles and disciples that were commissioned to baptize and preach our Lords message and propagate this faith until our Lord returned to this earth once again.

    Matt. 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: {teach: or, make disciples, or, Christians of all nations} 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    The slave would consist of slaves that die and others taking their place though time so that in the process there would be some that would do this faithfully, and some that would do this in an evil way. Therefore to those that were faithful a promise was given that would be fulfilled at the end of the world or our Lords coming:

    Matt. 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

    And we also have this promise that will be fulfilled at that same time for the evil ones attempting to represent the faith.

    Matt. 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. {cut: or, cut him off}

    Luke teaches the same thing like this:

    Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

    The parable applied to all that would become disciples not just the Apostles themselves. The servant therefore is the faith now represented by many Churches and many Denominations and Sects. Judgment of them would take place all at once at the end of the world when our Lord would return to raise the dead or change those still alive. So are all such servants or all such denominations to expect the rewards befitting a disciple or slave? The answer is no. Some would have to take their chances based on judgment accorded to undedicated mankind or unbelievers.

    Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; :46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. {cut: or, cut him off}

    Not everything involved with this slave is clear as not every responsibility would even be understood by it. There are variables involved in serving the Masters interests and these to will be given consideration at that time. So we learn that our position in the kingdom will depend on what we do now as a disciple because this is how we will be viewed then when our Lord returns.

    47 And that servant, which knew his lords will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    That is pretty much the sense of it. The Watchtower is not even close to understanding the texts and has formed doctrine that is self serving and not truth. Joseph

  • apocalypse

    I see that some of the respondants have been able to grasp the issues. Others have not. One might ask, 'if a presentation of the facts laying open and exposed here, exposed to the eyes of those who pride themselves in their insight, fails to enlighten those who read it, then how can those still locked inside the Tower ever hope to see the truth?'

    In the end, the Watchtower will continue to utilize the big lie, for that is their way. Christ himself laid bare the truth of the matter in his day. The Jewish 'organization' had blinded the minds of those within it then, and Jesus called the religious leaders what they were. "Blind guides" he said, and 'liars and hypocrites'.

    I hasten to say that those today who have raised themselves up over their bretheren will pay the same price as those who suffered for the lies they told back then.

    They say the Romans were ruthless.

  • sf

    ~bump, for the lurkers and seekers~

  • AuldSoul

    apoc, great work!

    You might like to add a note that in their most recent publication "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" there is no mention of the Faithful and Discreet Slave at all. It may be that preparations are underway to separate from that doctrine except in a purely historical context. It is sensible on their part to do so, since obviously all who claim to be anointed will be dead long before their looked for "end of this old wicked system."


  • greendawn

    All WT leaders have lied profusely to the public in order to promote their "religion" for which read their colossal multinational printing business, it is mammonas that appointed them as the FDS rather than the Spirit of God.

    Russell was an adulterous medusa (see Rose Ball, and also his housemaid)and also involved in occultism and free masonry he dealt in pyramidology, numerology, enochian magic and spirit channelling (published the sayings of a fallen demon to a woman medium) and ordered a pyramid with 33rd level masonic symbols for his grave site.

    The founding guy and thus the "religion" he founded clearly have occult demonic roots and it's hard to see how god would appoint demon infested vermin like him to be in charge of the chastity of his worship. Neither can we be sure that the subsequent jw leaders severed this org from those occult demonic roots. Sublime satanic images appear in their publications to this day.

  • heathen

    I understood the WTBTS to say that the faithful steward was appointed in 1918 after the 3 and half year prophesied about . All other religions were then beaten and placed with the hypocrites at that time and not at the end . Since rutherford and russell found a way to get thrown in prison for publishing seditious statements that stated christians do not involve themselves in warfare . I've seen the trial transcript and they really blew their own defense it did not look like the demons were out to get them as portrayed in their publications . Anywho the dogma goes on to state that once released from bonds that they were given a seat in the heavens to where they could not be killed again . ( they used the 2 witnessess in revelation that were killed not buried and revived ) to exsplain this all away .

  • greendawn

    Heathen, Russell died before the imprisonment event, however Rutherford deserved all he got given his ugly, dictatorial, grabbing mentality.

  • heathen

    Yah , you are correct it was rutherford and seven companions . I got confused because they are called russellites .pg 168 revelation grand climax. There is a part about how Ray H. Abrams writes a book called preachers present arms .Apparently he was convinced it was a conspiracy . According to the trial transcript all they had to do was remove a certain part of a publication that was already in print since they had just passed the sedition law . It didn't seem like there was much that could be done since it was already in circulation . Sure it didn't seem fair at all but was it really satan and his demons trying to snuff out the org. ?

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