Help Please, for a friend in crisis (non JW)

by home_and_dry 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • home_and_dry

    Hi all

    This is totally non-JW related, but I have a close friend who is in turmoil at the moment and there are lots of great people here who are good with advice so any help would be appreciated.

    My friend, who Ill refer to as Katie has just found out some shocking info about her past. Katies mum has been an alcoholic for about 15 years. Her mum is also very mentally unstable and has had numerous breakdowns. Katies mum has been a pretty bad mother all in all. You may justify it by saying that Katies mum has an illness but ill or not, she has made Katies life an utter misery. Katie has tried on many occasions to help her mum and build bridges, but within weeks of any reconciliation, Katies mum reverts to type and continues to emotionally abuse her daughter. Katie, by the way, is in her early 30s.

    Katies mum says that she was sexually abused by her father as a child and through her teen years. Katie has known about this for many years, and has found it hard to accept because as a child herself, Katie was often sent to stay with her grandfather and he was always in her life up until his death around 20 years ago. Katie wonders why, if her grandfather had abused and raped her mother, would her mother put Katie in the care of this man. As a mother herself, Katie knows that she would never put her own children in such a dangerous position and cant forgive her mother. But Katie has never said this to her mother because she doesnt want to make a bad situation worse.

    Katies mum became pregnant with Katie at 19. Katies father was a married man who conveniently went back to his wife and has never seen Katie, although he does know about her. This was the story Katie was told. But she has just found out that her mother has told a close family member that the man she thought was her father actually isnt, and Katie is in fact the result of her grandfather raping her mother. Katies mother is now denying this, and sticking to the original story of the married man being Katies father.

    She does know that this man thought Katie was his child. But she also knows that she was born 2 months prematurely and she now wonders whether she was premature, or is this part of the cover up, to tie in dates to make the married man appear to be her father.

    She has no way of contacting the married man, her grandfather is dead and her mother is denying ever telling anyone that Katies grandfather is also her father. Katie really wants to find the truth, but how can she?

    Does she have any legal rights with this? Could her grandfathers medical records be produced to check blood types? I dont see how DNA could be used when neither of the men in the frame are around. Does she have to worry about any genetic issues? If her grandfather is also her father, does she have any health risks? Or do Katies children?

    Sorry this is so long but any thoughts would be appreciated .

  • nita6368

    Hi There, My best to Katie

    I was watching a talk show the other day about paternity test and it was said on it that if the father wasn't available but a sibling or close relative of the father(grandfather) was they can do some kind of dna match because close relatives has similar dna patterns. She might want to inquire at one of those dna /paternity testing sites on the web. Just a thought!

    Edited because I type faster than I spell!!

    Edited by - nita6368 on 24 October 2002 17:42:33

  • jurs

    I think Kate needs to stop worrying about who her real father is and just stay as far away from her mother as she can. The more she dwells on such a disturbing past the harder it will be for her to move on. jurs

  • Francois

    Yes, of course she has to worry about genetic issues surrounding her physical father, whoever he is.

    It would be a simple matter for Katie to look up her grandfather's birth records as that will have the blood type on it. I don't think the death record will be of any value. Except perhaps to state where he was born so that his birth records can be located.

    This other guy who thinks he's the father. If anyone knows where HE is, then I'd march right up to the front door, state my case, ask for a strand of hair, and tell him if he cooperated I'd be gone. If he didn't cooperate, I'd tell him I'd see him in court if I had to and if he wanted to keep it quiet, he'd fork over the hair. His current wife may not know anything about this and if not he'd probably like to keep it that way. Run this bluff. I bet it works.

    TWO months premature 30-something years ago? I don't know if it was possible to rescue a preemie that early thirty something years ago. I tend to believe that the grandfather is the father. And if it became necessary, I'd petition the court for an exhumation to find out. But that's just me.


  • Shakita


    I like your name.

    Sorry Katie has had such a hard life. It sounds like a soap opera on TV. The Montel Show has alot of these type of paternity test shows on. Always seems to lead to heartache. Not that I watch them that much.

    I kind of got lost, so I re-read your post, and I still am confused.

    Katie must do what she feels she must in this situation. If she feels strong enough to find out the truth, she should go for it. Hope everything turns out ok for her.


  • LovesDubs

    Im no geneticist, but I think she would only be able, even if she had grandpas dna, to prove that he was related to her...which he was...and that that wouldnt necessarily prove he was her father. The grandfathers brothers would only prove the same thing...that Katie has her grandfathers dna..which she should. I dont think without something from the actual father that you can disprove the situation. Shes not going to have two headed kids tho...I believe there have been studies about "close family interrelations" and havent found anything that would show a higher occurence of birth defects from it.

    Little consolation considering what the poor girl has had to deal with. She needs to see some GOOD therapists and surround herself with people who love her. Post haste.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Like everyone else so far, I'm no expert on DNA, but I'm thinking that Katie COULD find out if her grandfather was also her father, and I think it could be done with samples from just Katie and her Mom.

    Here's my thinking: Katie's Mom has DNA from her mother -let's call her Eve, and her father - let's call him Adam.

    >>IF<< Katie is the child of her Mom and some other guy let's call him Moses - there should be about a 50% difference between Katie's DNA and her Mom's DNA, because half of Katie's DNA came from "some other guy" - Moses.

    >>IF<< Katie's DNA is more than 50% simiolar to her Mom's DNA, it could only be because the other half of her DNA came from her grandfather, Adam.

    Katie needs to visit her Mom and collect hair from her hairbrushes and maybe even get toe or finger nail clippings. If she could get a moth swab that would be even better. I have heard of cases where the small amount of saliva necessary to lick a stamp or seal an envelope contained enough epithelial cells from the mouth for DNA analysis.

    If Katie has the somach for it, she should know the truth, remembering that HER value of a human being is not affected by her parentage, but by her own character.

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 24 October 2002 19:53:13

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    I'm interested in finding an answer to your question, so I sent an email to a DNA testing lab asking if this mystery could be solved and how much it would cost to solve it. There are plenty of labs that offer paternity testing, and this is basically a paternity test tturned inside out. I'll let you know what I find out.

  • DakotaRed

    I have to pretty much agree with Jurs on this. I had a drunken Dad, abusive Mom, the whole bit. I too tried to build what I considered a normal family relationship should be. One person cannot do it. I was even told once that my Dad didn't father me, as he was in the hospital at the time I would have been conceived. Of course, my grandma, who let it slip out once, immediately told me that he was indeed my father. I always wondered after that if one of my uncles, who my Dad seemed to hate and who paid a lot of attention to me when smaller, might in fact have been my real Dad, but never found out and never pursued it.

    After many tries after I reached adulthood at a normal relationship with my family, I just quit trying and avoided them, focusing my energies instead upon my own daughters. Now that they are grown and my Mom and Dad are also gone, I do not regret my decision. I have the relationship I tried to have with my parents with my daughters and grandsons.

    While things as this can be a point of curiosity, they can also be very expensive and results often inconclusive. (testing is no better than the lab performing them) You say Katie has children. My suggestion is to avoid her Mom completely, until the Mom gets help and focus herself on her own family and hopefully, she will come to have as great a relationship with her own children as I have with mine.

    Lew W

  • Prisca

    I think everyone has given great advice, and I can't add any more to it.

    I will comment on what Francois said:

    TWO months premature 30-something years ago? I don't know if it was possible to rescue a preemie that early thirty something years ago.

    Plenty of premmie babies born that early have survived. My own father was born 2 mths early 77 years ago and he survived without modern medical techniques. I have a good friend who is 32 who was 2 mths premmie, and he survived ok.

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