Channel of Communication?
We are told that the governing body is the group through which God speaks to the human race. We have also been told by that governing body that mysticism is of the devil. It's evilwickedmeanbadandnasty.
So exactly how, then, does the GB get this information from God?
Mysticism is defined as involving or having the nature of an individual's direct subjective communion with God or ultimate reality. Well. The information that gets in the Watchtower and Awake direct from God has first got to get into the minds of the GB, right? And that "getting into the minds of the GB" is the very definition of mysticism, since it takes communion with God to get the info from his mind to their minds, it is thus via a mystical experience - by definition - in which the GB is engaged. Every month on a regular basis.
But mysticism is evilwickedmeanbadandnasty. Does this mean that the GB engages in activities it has proscribed as being evilwickedmeanbadandnasty so that it can put light from God into the WT? Isn't that becoming unequally yoked with evil? Isn't that a bad association that will spoil a useful habit? Or Two? Isn't that having truck with evil? Isn't that violating the injunction to avoid the very appearance of evil? Isn't that what they tell us we can't under any circumstances do? No crystals? No New Age music? No Ram Das? No meditating? No pyramids? No humpin' and bumpin' for purely spiritual reasons as in kundalini yoga?
In short, isn't that a great big glaring unmitigated hypocrisy?
I want to know how the GB gets its information. Do they have their own set of Urim and Thummin - those cosmic dice from the Hebrew temple? And they ask yes and no questions of ROCKS? Or do they just have a bag of ordinary Runes that you can buy at any Barnes & Noble? Hell, if they can buy 'em and know the will of God, why can't I?
I WANT TO KNOW: HOW DOES THE GB COMMUNICATE WITH GOD?
If they can't answer that question, then why are they any different from any other pompadoured, Rolex-wearing, money-grubbing television evangelist?
And why should you or anybody else take seriously ANYthing they say?
You reckon one of 'em is going to get on here and be ready to give the reasons for his faith? I'm holding my breath. And, until we meet again, I remain:
Francoise, soon to be High Priest of Francoise's First Fellowship of Fun Followers. Keep your eye on the Runes, and don't let none of them love offerings make no noise when them hits the bottom of that wash tub what's bein' passed through the audience. God knows the depth of your committment, brothers and sisters, and he also knows the depth of your POCKET. Keep them card and letters comin' in friends. Put your hands on the sides of your TV and pray for a miracle. You've already assumed the position. Now get ready for the f**kin' that follows.
Question: Do the G.B. claim to communicate with God?
I am not sure that they do make this claim. They certainly do claim to be a spirit directed organisation. They are the words used in the second of the two questions to baptism candidates.
But being spirit directed does not mean the same as communicating with God. Communication is a two-way street i.e. a communication needs a sender, a message, and a hearer and vice versa, as in a conversation. So that ones such as Adam and Abraham had conversations with God. The G.B. do not claim that.
Jesus promised that after his going away he would send "a helper, the Holy Spirit,.... that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you"(John 14:26). It seems the WTBTS are claiming that the H.S. is helping them, directing them as in their thoughts and decisions.
Whether this means that this operation of the H.S. was to continue past those to whom Jesus spoke is a moot point. Notice that the H.S. would "bring back to your minds all the things I have told you". So there is nothing in those words to suggest that there would be anything new that they would learn, nor that the 'light' would get brighter.
Please don't take my remarks as meaning that my defence of the Society teaching is a blanket defense; far from it. But I do think we should be sure of what we are criticizing before we assume a superior position.
ozzie (of the truth in advertising class)
if the H.S. were "a helper" that teaches, how then could it be as claimed by the WT, a mindless force? i think the WT will need to put a different spin on the "helper". or the "confusion" of the "trinity" become even more "confusing".
This priceless information that was passed down to the spirit appointed Governing body over the last hundred years, and spewed out in hundreds books and millions of magazines, can now be bought for a few pence at most car boot sales.
It is sad to think of the people who made such huge sacrifices to spend millions of hours urgently going from door-to-door with these pronouncements, claiming they were from the very mouth of God himself. What exactly is the difference between claiming to be inspired or merely spirit appointed to be God's mouthpiece?
If the members of the Watchtower Society's Governing body had a shred decency left, they would hang their heads and weep.
If you guys trying to say that God is using Ray Franz and James Penton, then you are wrong.
Well if you let them have the Hawaai office and retire with the annuity fund they migh t consider it...
but why would they
Imagine a place where you could live with more power and money of the "Godfathe"r, be respected by six million faithful followers, and never worry about getting wiped out by a rival family. In fact as the world was concerned, you were some wacko who was one of those Jehovahs, who didn’t celebrate christmas, who didn’t take blood transfusions , and never sought prominence. No prominence would just call to the masses exactly what is going on and we dont want any one to know this do we.
The Governing Body of Jehovahs Witnesses are such Godfathers, and it is all legal.
and you wish they would give it up.
I'm sorry, but if what appears in the WT is to be understood as the word of God, then there has to be a mechanism by which that word is translated to the GB. What is it?
And if no claim is made as to a special connection with that mechanism, then it's open to any and all. If that's the case, why would we need the governing body to tell us what the spirit said, since we'd already know?
If there is a claim as to uniqueness, which there is, then what is the mechanism of that communication? The scriptures pointedly say that the spirit was to be poured out upon "all flesh."
Communication need not be two-way. Communication can be defined as an act of transmitting. But if it's two way, then what is the mechanism? Hell, if it's one way, what is the mechanism?
And if the spirit is "guiding" the GB, what is the mechanism? Do they sit around and burn candles and chant? Do they sacrifice virgins?
Do they cut a goat? Does what is to be printed in the WT come across in automatic speaking, automatic writing, automatic typing, automatic hearing, or any other function of the marginal consciousness? What is that function? No watery answers are going to do here, I'm afraid.
The GB claims it is the only channel of communication God is using. What is the mechanism of that channel that's open to them and not to me? What is the freaking mechanism of that leading that tells the GB what goes in the WT?
Not that I don't already know. THERE ISN'T ONE. Those old bastards on the GB have no more idea of the mind of God than they know how to fly to the damn moon. I challenge them to produce any evidence of such a communication channel. The only evidence they've ever produced in over a hundred years is that they preside over a false religion with false prophecies.
Does anyone besides me here think that Francoise would benefit from reading CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE by the abovementioned Raymond Franz?
Although I think I'm with you, Francoise, when you say that holy spirit is available to all and we thus have no need of any organization to have a relationship with God.