A MODERN FICTION: the lie which became a GOVERNING BODY

by TerryWalstrom 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Terry said: What if I told you JW's embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history?

    I just wanted to say that I find ALL religious people embrace mental constructs at odds with history. Faith requires, demands even, that you let go of rational, logical, critical thinking skills. When facts contradict faith, the faithful side with faith. Because if they don't, the life they've built on this tenuous house of cards comes crashing down. We know because we've all been through it. The faithful make a choice NOT to deal with factual truth and reality but to just accept and obey. The faithful also seem to need to have someone else interpret scripture for them.

    Terry said: I'd love to be able to talk to somebody who has been in, and remained in, since the 1950's who could talk about all the changes. I know there is an infinite capacity to make excuses. That is a given. But, surely there is a cumulative sense that the world has turned under the feet of the older ones and nothing is really the same anymore except the name Jehovah's Witness.

    Terry, I think my Father had his doubts as he grew older. He wasn't 'in' back in the 1950s, only becoming 'dedicated' around 1986. He's experienced a lot and there have been a lot of changes even since then.

    After the death of a really close friend of his back around 2004-2005, my Dad started calling me a lot more. We've had a lot of discussions since then. I should attempt to document them one day. In 2009, my Dad told me he thought he had dementia. He was correct. In 2010, he realized he was going to die (which also means I think he realized he would die without Armageddon arriving. He was convinced it would come sometime in 2009-2010 and it did not). My Dad is still alive, he is now in a nursing home, and no longer remembers his religion.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Terry - "...JWs embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history..."

    In other breaking news, water is wet. :smirk:

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Terry - "...JWs embrace a mental construct which is at odds with history..."

    Hell, JWs embrace a mental construct at odds with f**king reality... :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    Terry, great work. I put a link to it in my notes.

    However, there is one important thing you missed, partly because you concentrated on the work of Christendom's scholars.

    Now, when I say this, I don't want you to go off on a loop. Stay calm. Maintain the same even keel I saw in your work. And for God's sake remember, I am not pro-wt in any manner of speaking. I am just a bible student. And I've been on this board 15 years.

    Truth is truth, and it don't need a crutch. It stand up pretty good on it's own.

    There was indeed a governing body in the first century.

    Don't flip out. You haven't done nearly enough reading to be justified in standing on the ledge yelling 'I'm gonna jump'...

    I didn't say that this group was ordained by God or desirable by Christ. Nor did I say that Acts speaks of a 'governing body' in those words.

    The term, in fact, is a modern one and it comes to us honestly, via US Corporate Law. It was the "Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society Inc. of Pennsylvania NY", specifically the Pres, vice pres and board of directors, same as any other corporation registered in the good 'ol US of A. In the year 2000, the legal governing body stepped aside and a new governing body of the WTBTS Inc was appointed. And the spiritualized GB was invented, made up of the FORMER Pres, Vice Pres and Board of Directors.

    See, I'm an 'apostate' just like you. LOL

    In the first century, there was a group or body of 'governors' who asserted their power.

    1) It did exist. This can be established conclusively.

    2) They had activities. Also established from the scriptures.

    3) The Apostle Paul expressed his view on them and their work. Established.

    4) Paul sought to work with them. Established.

    5) The warning we get from the account of them and their activities as well as Paul's words should dissuade any Christian group from establishing another group or body in their likeness.

    The point is, what were they all about, what were their activities. How did the Apostle Paul feel about them?

    That they existed and did stuff is undeniable.

    There's a lot to discuss to 'get there'. I can't just paste it all. Just like when you sat down to post you spent the day, I would have to do the same. My time is tight. But I would like to discuss it.

    If you are interested, then the place to start is with the 'nuclear question' ( I have a few of these I ask JW's to get them going)

    The men who went down to Antioch who were trying to impose circumcision on the Gentiles... who were they?

  • TerryWalstrom
    TerryWalstrom
    biblexaminer

    There was indeed a governing body in the first century.
    ____________________________________________

    Let's take the Bible we have --and just for the sake of argument-- stipulate it says what it means. ( I don't personally think the latest scholarship verifies such a stipulation, but there are too many side roads to tempt us into an eternal loop.)

    If Jesus' death did indeed bridge the gap between man and God, what need have any of us for a "Governing Body"?
    We have the Bible. We have God's Holy Spirit. We have prayer.
    We can have fellowship (where two or more are gathered in my name. . . ) but we ALREADY have leadership: King Jesus.

    In fact, when the universal Christian Church (Catholic) fell in the 16th century, (human Magisterium and tradition, bound Heaven to its rule) it was because it governed-- and by means of said governance, did so corruptly.

    A pause in Governance ensued.

    The Protestant Reformation was a scrambling around among the intelligentsia eager to lay down Governing rules and principles. (Out of the Catholic frying pan into the Protestant fire.)

    The result was, among other denominational manifestations, the Thirty Years War.
    Sola Scriptura has given us--not unity under a governing body--but dissonance and 40-thousand denominations as variations on a theme.

    What would a "restored" Governing Body give us that the Advent of Christ and the resurrection of kings and judges at his side- not give us?

    Show me the necessity of a GB and we have a platform for discussion.

    The obsession to go back to the 1st century and duplicate primitive Christianity makes about as much sense as deciding to drive Model T Fords rather than modern automobiles.

    It is some sort of Luddite compulsion isn't it?

    Why isn't Jesus enough of a governing body? He is the only Mediator between God and man. Only seems to mean. . . .well. . . nobody else.

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