I, on the other hand, will put far too fine a point on it and say that pi is not an irrational number, it is a transcendental number. :)
Arniem falls in to the trap of trying to justify everything in the Bible as being true, accurate and scientific. It isn't and doesn't have to be unless you have to believe the Bible to be true, accurate and scientifically correct. All sorts of reasons come up for making the Bible's measurements fit. Give it up, the Bible is neither a science of math book.
As for Jericho, the walls did fall down. Unfortunately, I understand that the ruins excavated were from a period several hundred years before Israel was supposed to have captured the city.
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
For many examples of the problems with the Bible, visit www/skepticsannotatedbible.
I first saw the debate on the value of pi in Kings defended by Keith Hovind.
Right. And he had no good answer either, right?
He uses science to prove the accuracy of the bible and defends creation vs evolution. I found a lot of his evidence very convincing.
People who know nothing about science often do. They don't take the time to check out the basic claims, so they don't find out that creationists lie, misquote, distort, make up evidence where there is none, just as you can expect from con men.
Some examples are: It is a scientific fact that the revolution of the earth slows down by a pre-determined amount
every year. If the earth is millions of years old the earth would have been rotating so fast it would be impossible for life to exist.
A claim totally void of any quantitative facts to back up the assertion, so typical for creationist claims. Presently, the earth's rotation is slowing down 0.005 seconds per year per year. The Earth is 4.6 billion years old. If the decay was constant, it should mean a 14 hour day. Why should it be impossible for life to exist under such circumstances? Of course, no life existed for the first billion years or so.
In fact, some organisms grow in dayly and yearly cycles, making it possible to find out what the length of the day was millions of years ago. "A study of rugose corals from the Devonian (370 million years ago), initiated by John W. Wells of Cornell University in 1963, indicated that the year then had 400 days of about 22 hours each."
So instead of being a problem for evolution and science, these facts keep confirming each other, and demonstrates that young earth creationism is just a dishonest fantasy.
See http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/rotate.html for a debunking of this totally absurd claim.
Also do you recall pictures of the lunar lander on the moon. It had long landing gear to allow for the 6-9 feet of dust on the lunar surface accumulated over 4.6 million years.
This is just nonsense. The unmanned craft Surveyor I landed on the Moon in 1966, so NASA knew exactly how much dust there was on its surface.
This is just another creationist distortion that has made the rounds in creationist literature, without basis in fact. It's amazing how it keeps being repeated despite having been disproved 25 years ago. Just shows you how little regard Christians and especially young earth creationists have for truth and facts.
You can find some facts about the "moon dust argument" on this website: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth/specific_arguments/moon_dust.html
As it turned out there was 6" of dust eqivalent to 6000 years..
A bit more accurate and factual: "Dohnanyi's figure for the moon (2 x 10-9 grams/square centimeter per year) yields 2.3 tons/day. In 4.5 billion years a layer of about one and a half inches of cosmic dust would accumulate on the moon."
Which was more or less what they found. Old age of the Moon was thus confirmed.
The first words from the astronauts was "Where is all the dust"
As I pointed out, they knew exactly how much dust there were. From where did you get this little story? Sounds like typical christian legends that are passed around.
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen"
-- Albert Einstein
Great Post, Jan. Spot on point.
I would be horrified to be a JW and discover I was using the same arguments that, say, are being used by the First Church of Jesus, Holy Roller. Of course, the JWs did file an amicus brief with the Supreme Court in support of Jimmy Swaggert. That's just how come they can't sell their literature any more. They've got to give it away. And I don't notice the JWs giving a big rat's ass that young men with young wives and little children, whom they have actively disuaded from getting an education, and thus a decent paying job, have got to purchase all those WTs and such only to give it away or, more likely, to line some bird cage some where. Hell, via their policy on blood they kill these people by the hundreds every year, what's saddling them with cash outlay they can ill afford, for magazines nobody wants?
As stated previously, the WTB&TS should be expunged from the earth, just like any other vermin.
(1 Ki 7:23 NLT) Then Huram cast a large round tank, 15 feet across from rim to rim; it was called the Sea. It was 7 1/ 2 feet deep and about 45 feet in circumference.
1. Does anyone know how this verse was written in the original Hebrew language?
I noticed that the New Living Translation translates "ABOUT 45 feet".
2. Does the original Hebrew say that the measurment was an "exact" or "aproximate" measurement? Or does it just leave it up to the reader to determine what is meant?
3. Has anyone done any reseach on this matter from the original Hebrew manuscripts themselves?
If they have, I'd like to see it written here.
My copy of the NWT says the bowl was 10 cubits from rim to rim, and 30 cubits all around.
I will start over....I am not associated with any religion, nor am I a bible thumper. I do tend to believe the bible is accurate but always I am open minded enough to consider evidence showing any errors that can be proven. In order for the bible measurements of the bowl in 1 Kings 7:23 to equal pi we are short by aprox 18 inches. If I spread my hand and measure the breadth from thumb to small finger it is 8 1/2 inches. Using this measurement on both sides of the container gives us an extra 17 inches bringing the bible figures much closer to the true value of pi. Of course I cannot prove this was how a handbreadth was measured, I also cannot prove the true measure of a cubit which was measured from the elbow to finger tip and regarded as about 18 inches today. I also cannot prove that the bible measurement of 10 cubits was for the inside of the container and the two handbreadths were to be added to arrive at the outside measurement. Those who argue against my position also are unable to prove their system of measurement so I remain un-conviced that it is a proven bible error. I thank those who sent the history of the pi debate....I did not realize it went back that far in history. If pi is indeed an irrational number with no end , how then can we expect the bible to give us the finite measurement. Thanks Guys...I remain "Open Minded"
You are probably right, many bible people, including myself will tend to bend science to fit our bible. Those on the other side of the fence do so also. Evolution was, and still is, just a theory but is readily accepted as fact by much of the world. As science progresses at today's fast pace the theory of evolution is faltering here and there, This is very hard for many to accept because it seems the only option is the theory of creation which is unnaceptable so they hang on tooth and nail to their ancestors , the monkey people. I sure hope my ancestors were not monkeys and that we were indeed created by God and the bible turns out to be true