Where did Jesus get the Idea of an After-life in Heaven?

by John Aquila 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Saintbertholdt

  Hi there John Aquila,

  My two cents.

  How about this: What if its a natural part of the evolution of religion?

  What do I mean by this? Well according to Prof. Bob Briar the ancient Egyptians only believed that the Pharaoh's had a 'ba' (The personal characteristics that remain after the individual dies that ascends to the heavens). Everyone had a 'ka' or life force. Later on the religion evolved that lower royals also had a 'ba'. Later tradesmen and professionals claimed the same and then finally every-man. This can be seen because in early dynasty's only the Pharaoh's had pyramid tombs, later lower royals and professionals and so on (The pyramids grow smaller in size too :)) The liberalization of the culture over time caused a view of equality in the afterlife (Not that the slave is equal to the Pharaoh in the afterlife but that he actually gets to have one) . Also see: Ian Shaw - The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt (2000) p180-181 Callender, Gae, "The Middle Kingdom"

  What I'm getting at is that Christianity represents an evolution of the Jewish tradition. There are two mentions in the Old Testament that elude to possible heavenly ascents: Elijah and Enoch. Both have special status: One as a pre-flood patriarch and the other a profit. Perhaps the germ of an idea. Heaven originally viewed as an exception for the exceptional or the very special but later becomes a destination for all. Perhaps it could be viewed as an equalizer.

  The Gospels I view as the evolution of a philosophy which emerges out of the Jewish culture. Not the work of just the four gospel writers, but the work of a rebellious component of the Jewish community creating a new liberal tradition. The sayings of Jesus were being passed around very early and that those sayings also multiplied and evolved as can be seen in the Gospel of Thomas (which may be the oldest recorded sayings of Jesus 40 ce or much much later140 ce). Whats important is not the dating of Thomas but that sayings of Jesus on their own were being passed around, and when combined with anecdotes about Jesus or persons confused with Jesus became the basis of the four narratives. Mark is the oldest and may be based on Thomas. Matthew and Luke borrow from Mark and John is the odd one out who adds totally different ideas (like the Deity of Christ)

  
  

  Heaven liberalizes the Jewish community. The class system is effectively destroyed in the afterlife through the Gospels (I'm ignoring anything beyond the gospels for the sake of argument). The community who evolved the Gospels probably drew on the possible allusions of Elijah and Enoch and combined them with other ideas coming from Zoroaster, Egypt etc. I also think of it in terms of the evolution of the JW faith. In Russells day everyone went to heaven. Later J F Rutherford alters the tradition and emphasizes the class system with two destinations. The whole process takes a couple of decades, just like the evolution of the Christian tradition of heaven.

  
  
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  John Aquila

  Saintbertholdt

  The Gospels I view as the evolution of a philosophy which emerges out of the Jewish culture. Not the work of just the four gospel writers, but the work of a rebellious component of the Jewish community creating a new liberal tradition

  Thanks Saintbertholdt

  That sounds more reasonable. I can see that happening. I’m going to do more research in that direction.
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  kepler

  The Deutero-Canonical book of Wisdom addresses immortality in 2:23

  "For God created human being to be immortal , he made them as an image of his own nature.

  ...

  "To the unenlightened ( 3:2) they appeared to die, their departure was regarded as a disaster,

  their leaving us like an annihilation; but they are at peace..."

  This is a book of late origin and in Greek, but long part of the Septuagint - and until the 19th century, part of the KJB.
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  John Aquila

  kepler 4 minutes ago

  The Deutero-Canonical book of Wisdom addresses immortality in 2:23

  Thanks kepler, I didn't know that because I'm not familiar with the book of Wisdom, but I know it was part of the Septuagint. So there was some familiarity with immortality with some Jews. So I'm guessing like Saintbertholdt mentioned, it was an idea that slowly evolved into Christianity. Interesting!
  
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  Crazyguy

  Like was mentioned above so much of Christianity was influenced by other religions. Read the book of the Dead, in it you'll find these similarities. One dies and his body goes to the underworld and his spirit to heaven or up by the stars. In the underworld the body goes through several triles and tribulations until the final test where by the persons heart is weighed against the goddess Maat feather. If ones heart is not pure they are eaten by a beast and are gone forever the second death. If thier heart is pure they rejoin with thier spirit and go to live in Paradise called the field of reeds. Now the Pharoah situation was a bit different because if he passed the tribulations he merges with the god Osiris which is doing the judging and finally he merges with his spirit and become one with the sun God RA and lives for eternity in heaven as the sun. See the similarities and notice how similar it is with what the JW's teach. I the GB think of themselves as kings and will go to heaven, just like the Pharoah.
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  CalebInFloroda

  Jesus' teaching on "heaven" is merely an interpretation of Judaism's belief in what we call "the world to come" or Olam HaBa.

  Since Judaism is not concerned with or even has a doctrine of personal salvation, the details of Olam Ha Ba have never been entirely definite or fully formed. There is some question as to how developed it was in earliest Judaism, but as pointed out on this thread (and as rabbis agree) the Hebrew Scriptures show some indication of shades of belief in an afterlife from early on. The simple Bible phraseology that upon dying individuals are "gathered to their people" is interpreted by some Jews to mean that they went to live on another plain with the ancestors who passed before them.

  Through the centuries Jews have discussed whether Olam Ha Ba has any connection to or is some description of heaven as the afterlife. Again there is no definitive theology on this, but it has been viewed as a possibility, definitely by the Second Temple era.

  Jesus took all of his eschatology from Judaism. Gehenna, heaven and even purgatory are Jewish concepts, and Jesus just built upon these which in turn got built upon by the apostles and later the Church Fathers. Since Christianity is based upon personal salvation, heaven as a reward became central to its creed.

  However it should be added that Catholicism does not see heavenly life as permanent. Their official eschatology is that the physical universe will be renewed at the end of history, introducing the "new heavens and new earth" in which the righteous will dwell. In this the Catholic concept is almost identical with Olam Ha Ba, including even life upon a restored paradise earth.

  
  
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  Crazyguy

  Hate to disagree with you calibinflorida but the Jews stole almost all thier beliefs from the nation's around them. For example in the writing of thier creation myth God created the shy and the earth was the original words not heaven. The concept of a place like heaven came from others so did the underworld gehenna etc. The book of the Dead also known as the coffin texts also know as the pyramid texts goes way back before any one ever heard of a Israelite.
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  CalebInFloroda

  Crazyguy,

  Can you point out where I said that the Jews invented their beliefs? I don't remember saying that the eschatological concepts of my people were unique or exclusive to the Jews.
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  Village Idiot

  John Aquila:

  "The Ancient Jews did not believe in an after-life as far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong."

  Not quite. Ancient Hebrews believed in a eternal spirit (ruach) that upon death would descend down into Sheol which was considered to be the underworld were the spirits of all persons, good and evil, went. They were to be in a spiritual coma so to speak, sleeping - not conscious but living.

  At some point Judaism (except for Sadducees) borrowed the concept of a resurrection from the Zoroastrians and divided Sheol, known as Hades in the Greek, in which the immortal spirits were to be eventually united with their bodies. Those spirits or souls were later considered to be conscious in anticipation of their resurrection.

  Hades was then divided into two sections, one for the righteous and one for the evil. The area of the underworld that was reserved for the righteous was called "Paradise" and the area for the evil was called Gehenna. Both were to be a small foretaste of the post-resurrection afterlife. Now recall Jesus telling the thief on the cross that he would be with him in "Paradise" on the same day.(The New World Translation fucked that verse up by placing the comma where it doesn't belong in Luke 23:43).

  It was later on that Paradise was transferred to heaven giving us the simplistic concept of the afterlife that most people currently believe in.
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  Ding

  What about Job 19:25-27?

  "For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at last he will stand upon the earth; 26 and after my skin has been thus destroyed, then from my flesh I shall see God, 27 whom I shall see on my side, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

  There's also Jesus' own reference to Exodus 3:6, given in Matthew 22:31-32: "And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."