Hourglass2 Outpost Archives 1996-2001

by Derrick 12 Replies latest jw friends

  • Derrick

    All credit and many thanks go to our dear brother Osarsif for making the Hourglass2 Outpost Archives 1996-2001 online Internet resource a reality:


    That's right, all 6 years! Starting with Sandman's legendary "Welcome!" topic posted at 19:40:31 EST on August 11, 1996, all the way forward through H2O's much discussed disintegration in the early 2000's. All there for you, thanks to Osarsif!

    Enjoy it, download it, burn it to your CD, or share topics with your favorite links in posts. Afterall, it's like an "encyclopedia" chronicling the beginning of the end for the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society as many oldtimers "in the truth" know it since its derailment in 1980.

    It's awesome to think that JWs surfing the net in the years since H2O's breakup have been enjoying this vast online vault of Watchtower and JW related information.

    As I read it, I run across the oldtime 'greats' that made it both educational, informative and entertaining. I estimate that if you printed out all the 300,000+ postings that you would need a very large floor-to-ceiling bookshelf with over 600 looseleaf binders (each 1-inch thick) weighing several hundred pounds! There was that much text written in almost 6 years on H2O.

    By the way, for those of you who came onto this site in the last few years, H2O is resting peacefully in "hypersleep" but occasionally stirring, at the following address: http://h2o.aimoo.com/forum/freeboard.cfm?id=311102. You can help revive her with a 'kiss' in the form of a post. She's an important relic from the past, many will attest, because the issue of reform has never become a moot issue. I think the problem of inactivity is that many lurkers to H2O want reform, but few can fathom how to change an organization so large and seemingly intractable. However, when its time for reform to break out, H2O is there as a resource.

    Although H2O's International Open Forum for Jehovah's Witnesses seems to sleep only to awake on occasion, and the JW Singles Forum occasionally stirs with passion like a sleeping volcano, there is a very active Finnish speaking version of the International Open Forum on H2O run by moderators in Finland! If you speak Finnish, why not visit the above link and scroll down to the Finnish speaking forum? Brothers and sisters were warned by the Society at Finnish conventions, evidently, to steer clear of this popular forum. In other words, it's considered taboo to many of you! Why not sneak a peek if you speak Finnish or even if you want to learn the language?

    Again, I cannot thank Osarsif enough for putting the entire set of H2O archives online.


    Edited by - Derrick on 13 October 2002 6:5:20

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Any chance of a highlights package?

  • Cygnus

    Cool beans.

    Joe Malik sent me CDROMs of the libraries a couple of years ago and when I need a good laugh I go through them. It's fun to see how so many of us have changed so much over the years -- and to see how some things have NOT changed at all!

  • JosephMalik


    Hope everything is well with you. Are you getting around ok?


  • sf


    Sure do miss 'WitnetObserver'...Joe Mesko.

    What an effort he put in for the Fight.

    May he continue to rest in peace.


  • Farkel


    : That's right, all 6 years! Starting with Sandman's legendary "Welcome!" topic posted at 19:40:31 EST on August 11, 1996, all the way forward through H2O's much discussed disintegration in the early 2000's. All there for you, thanks to Osarsif!

    I thought there was a period of several month's posts that got trashed near the time your host discontinued its service. You mean to say they were finally recovered? I hope so!

    All we need to do is start re-posting some of those topics and this site will be busy for years! Just think of all the new ones who never had a chance to see that stuff during those glory days.


  • JosephMalik

    I thought there was a period of several month's posts that got trashed near the time your host discontinued its service. You mean to say they were finally recovered? I hope so!


    Not to my knowledge. When H2o discontinued the download packages I struggled trying to save the site but several hard drives later lost most of that. Computers back then were not what they are today. It was not until I got Visual Basic software and finally wrote a program to download the messages in sequential order that whatever was left on the site was finally saved. About that same time Joe Mesko had a system that did much the same thing but was more difficult to use. It cluttered up the board in fact with long columns of message numbers. But we worked together after that and now Rado V has all of it up. I also stripped the messages to remove unnecessary data and compacted them considerably. That same program with a few changes did that in a flash. Too bad I did not get into VB sooner. We could have saved it all. Also conference room B1 was saved if you remember that one. And it all looks just like the old H2o when displayed.

    Something like that should be done for this board. But the messages here are really long if anyone has ever looked at the sources. It would take some doing.


    Edited by - JosephMalik on 14 October 2002 8:8:36

  • GermanXJW

    I get a little sentimental: I found one of my first posts (if not the first) on 11th September, 1996 under the name Waiting

    I remember choosing that name for I thought something was wrong in the organisation but I wanted to wait on Jehovah. :-(

  • Derrick
    I get a little sentimental: I found one of my first posts (if not the first) on 11th September, 1996 under the name Waiting

    I remember choosing that name for I thought something was wrong in the organisation but I wanted to wait on Jehovah. :-(

    Makes me feel sad in that we share common feelings in this regard.

    The difficult part is to decide we have waited long enough, sit up and pull ourselves from the warm embrace of our proverbial beds, get a cup of coffee and then hit the road in the pouring rain. (So to speak.)

    If I were to write a book and call it "Wake Up and Smell the Coffee! My Reality Check as a Jehovah's Witness," that would be the first sentence I would write.

    Oddly, I get a very strange feeling going through those ancient posts; all the memories about those strange days rush in like a tsunami. Freedom in Christ takes some getting used to. Pardon my philosophical indulgence in comparing myself to a grasshopper in a glass jar who was let out; instead of hitting my head on the lid when I instinctively tried to get out, I jumped through the open jar so high that a gust of wind caught me, and carried me far away from my confines.

    Creating a place for these discussions that are now archived, seems to have helped many to also find true freedom. Not fleeting "sexual freedom" or other false substitutes for true freedom. Rather, to find true freedom in Christ and freedom from the confinement of the flesh, and freedom to soar spiritually on the currents from Jehovah God's own Holy Spirit.

    If nothing else comes of H2O, and reform efforts by various ones fail and go the way of failed reform efforts in the middle age Church (as I suspect shall become another sad chapter of Church history), at least I will have the satisfaction knowing this: Many like yourself stopped waiting on Jehovah because they finally "heard" in their hearts his voice telling them to stop waiting! Time to start moving in the right direction down the path that ultimately leads to the his kingdom! Time to stop bothering people early Saturday mornings! Time to stop shoving Watchtower magazines in peoples faces! Time to set an example by enjoying our freedom as those who have accepted the eternal sacrifice of Christ!

    All this came about, at least in part, due to H2O and its predecessor AJWR, and the efforts of so many like Kristin, Sandman, Gina, Aussie Boy and other Australian JWs, and other faithful ones around the world. And the results? Spectacular. So many were like grasshoppers freed from their glass jars, like a plague of locusts now descending on the current generation of JWs living at Bethel and running the "show." The blood curtling screams of once silent lambs can be heard internationally, and bear witness to the truth about the wickedness of some under the cloak of Jehovah's written Word.

    In summary, I believe it never was about the Watchtower Society. It was all about those in it, in positions of responsibility whom we rely upon to operate it, who strayed from the fundamental basics that built this organization from the ground up! It was all about some who became worse hypocrits than some clergymen in Christendom, and looked the other way while its leaders (allegedly) raped young virgin sisters in their youthful prime if Pat's public accusations are proven true! These men, if their corruption proves them this wicked, must be expelled from this organization and permanently barred from reinstatement for their crimes. They deserve no "pension" or other consideration but rather should be cast out onto the mean streets of New York if their wicked acts are proven. Unless a full investigation is conducted in a manner that is recognized as serious and thorough, how will we ever know if our GB are innocent or guilty? Perhaps they are wrongfully accused. Without a full accounting, how can any honest hearted person feel good about entering a Kingdom Hall, and maintain a clean conscience before God?


  • WildHorses

    Here is the reason I over look a lot of you knows post. He wrote the following.

    It's 4 a.m. here on the left coast, and while I have always been an early riser, this is ridiculous; but I just have to get some things off my chest. With the sands of the hourglass down to the last few grains, I want to have a last word with you all.

    First, I want to offer my sincere apologies for all the mean and nasty stuff I may have said during the heat of battle. If I have hurt anyone's feelings or humiliated and offended anyone, I am truly sorry. And I want you all to know that neither do harbor any ill will against individuals that have given me a hard time over the course of our long-running conflict. I would only ask that you try to understand that the spirit that dwells in me is the same one that inspired the Psalmist to write these words: "My ardor has made an end of me, because my adversaries have forgotten your words."

    While I am afraid that most of you under the present circumstances would never return to the organization, I know there are a few of you who would like to do so if things were different. It is to those few that I write now.

    While I have been a staunch opponent of the reform movement, it is obvious to thinking persons that reform is exactly what the organization needs. I also am well aware that some of you have been mistreated by brothers, and many of you have deep-seated resentments against elders and relatives, and others of you have developed doubts that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth, or that Jehovah is even real. The question is though: What are Jehovah's judgments and thoughts on these issues? If he does indeed see what is taking place, surely he must have answers for those whose faith depends upon getting to the bottom of these potentially faith-destroying matters. Surely, a holy God like Jehovah would not take lightly the sort of error and transgression that we all know the organization is guilty of?

    While I have been careful not to fall into the camp of the "accusers of our brothers," nor do I wish to give apostates any ammunition to use against us, in the spirit of reasonableness, I recognize the serious problems that exist within the organization. I am also well aware that some of our teachings of prophecy, past and present, are indefensible. And while I do not wish to set a stumbling block before anyone, it should be evident that those in this forum have been exposed to many stumbling blocks already. The awkward position I find myself in now is that I can only defend the truth by admitting our failures. That is how it should be though, right? The greatest paradox is that our errors prove we have truth! Bear with me please.

    I have been aware for some time that the numerous prophecies in Isaiah, which the Watchtower always applies to the clergy of Christendom, actually apply to spiritual Israel, to Jehovah's Witnesses. For example: I believe that the words of Isaiah 28:1: "Woe to the eminent crown of the drunkards of Ephraim, and the fading blossom of its decoration of beauty that is upon the head of the fertile valley of those overpowered by wine!" are referring to the Watchtower Society. It is their tables that "have become full of filthy vomit." (Vs 9) The elders and the Society are those being spoken of who are always saying "command upon command, command upon command" That is evident by all the man made rules that have taken precedence over Christian freedom. Indeed, Jehovah intended the congregations to be a haven, saying: "This is the resting-place. Give rest to the weary one. And this is the place of ease. But you were not willing to hear." And we are also the ones that have "concluded a covenant with death and with Sheol we have effected a vision," to the effect that Jehovah's judgments will never come against us. We are in trouble!

    In the 29th chapter, we are the ones that Jehovah is speaking of when he says: "For upon you men Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep; and he closes your eyes the prophets, and he has covered even your heads, the visionaries." That's because Jehovah has concealed these very judgments from the ones who are his servants. And when God further says that this people honor me only with their lips, he is talking about his own people. And the "discreet men" in verse 14, whose very understanding conceals itself, is talking about none other than the faithful and DISCREET slave!

    I did not come to this understanding without much thought. I have read, and re-read, and read again these chapters of Isaiah, and others. The thing to take note of though is that Jehovah saves individuals. Notice for example back in the 28th chapter, after describing the flooding vigorous storm that God sends against his corrupt organization that he says: "In that day Jehovah of armies will become a crown of decoration and as a garland of beauty to THE ONES REMAINING OVER OF HIS PEOPLE." If the drunkards are the clergy than those "remaining over of his people" after the initial phase of the tribulation are those in Christendom. That cannot be the case because Isaiah's prophecy is directed to and against Jehovah's Witnesses. We can't appropriate all the blessings to ourselves and all the woes to the other guys. It doesn't work that way.

    Similarly, please take note in the 29th chapter, that when Jehovah afflicts his people and purges the tyrants from it, that the meek ones will rejoice. And in verse 23 & 24 Jehovah assures "Jacob" (spiritual Israel) that his children (the other sheep) "will certainly sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and the God of Israel they will regard with awe. And those erring in their spirit will actually know understanding, and even those grumbling will learn instruction." That is the end result, meaning that some will survive with their faith intact.

    I realize that you are probably really confused now. And it is not possible for me to go through verse by verse and explain things. But, take the time to carefully read those chapters and it becomes apparent that Jehovah recognizes what needs to be done. The coming crash is something that God has concealed from those who are otherwise his prophets and visionaries. The Watchtower says that Babylon the Great is going to be the first to get it. I don't think so. I think we are. That's what Peter says, right? The judgment begins FIRST with God's house. During that time of humiliation it will become totally irrelevant how many hours you did or did not get out in service, or whether you underlined the correct answer in the Watchtower, or whether you have a beard, or whatever. Those are the "command upon command" that have been laid upon us. But, when the Watchtower goes down it will only matter if one actually exercises faith, even as it says at Isaiah 28:16: "No one exercising faith will get panicky."

    So, that's where we stand. God's judicial decision is to bring us down. Isaiah 29:2 says of cryptic Ariel: "And I will have to make things tight Ariel, and there must come to be mourning and lamentation, and she must become to me the altar hearth of God." We are the holy place that is going to be desolated. That's why too Psalm 74 speaks of God's sanctuary and meeting places being burned while God's people lament: "Our signs we have not seen; there is NO PROPHET ANYMORE." The prophecy of Joel in fact is all about the lament that will go up from Jehovah's priests and others, (the pioneers and publishers being described as the farmers and vinedressers) when we are decimated by the onrushing locusts out of the north. There, I said it. I ran ahead. But at this point it doesn't matter. We are all in the same boat. Bottom line: Jehovah is going to thrash us good by allowing our enemies to have their way with us for an appointed time. Then, when we have learned to trust Jehovah, really trust him, and after we have repented of our foolishness, then he will step in to save us. I am confident that mercy will triumph over judgment in our case.

    So then there is hope friends. As Jesus said, walk in the light while you have it. The Watchtower is not your enemy. They have done what God said they would do. They are simply being used to prepare us for what is next. They just haven't spelled it all out for you because God has concealed things from them. Do you understand now how it is that the brothers of Christ are going to wind up in prison and hungry and naked? If you have any hope at all of surviving the end of this world you will still have to past that test of loyalty. Yes, the slave has messed up really badly. Some among the Society are evidently just wicked. I hope not though, and I am certainly not the judge, and I will continue to pray for them. But one thing I am certain of: in the end Christ will judge you by your faith in him and your loyalty to his brothers. That loyalty will have to be demonstrated AFTER they have been put to shame, during the tribulation judgment period. That will apparently be very difficult to do then.

    This is it for me. I will not be participating in any other forum. It is my sincere hope that you are able to muster the faith necessary to pass that final test. I now commit you to Jehovah and our Lord Christ Jesus for their coming inspection. / You Know

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