NEWS - VICKI BOER CASE - Canadian Press - Sep 24

by hawkaw 18 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Had Enough
    Had Enough

    WOW HAWK!!!! Great news.

    What was not reported in the above press report is that the entire afternoon was spent on trying to figure out what damages Vicki should be awarded

    This is especially good to hear since, as you and I discussed today, the Judge remarked a few times yesterday with Mr. Mark about how to assess the $ amount of the damages....as a package or individual items and/or according to who is named in the suit. So now those points make even seem more important to me today.

    Even Charles Mark seemed to be up on the damages aspect of the case

    BRAVO MR. MARK: Its been a tough case and you hit some rough spots but like the energizer bunny, you kept on going, and you kept bouncing back.

    The decision will not be until early 2003 due to the complex nature of the case according to the judge. This is good news in my opinion. Means it wasn't as cut and dry as Colin Stevenson said it was. It also seems it was difficult for the judge due to what damages to award Vicki more than the "duty" end of it.

    This made my day!!!! And to think Mr. Stevenson tried to suggest this case should be dismissed due to the
    "sparce evidence" HA!!!!

    Now I'm really even more ticked off that I couldn't be there today to celebrate with Vicki and team.

    OK I'm not going to "count my chickens before they're hatched" but my optimism just jumped to a greater level and I'm doin' a little happy dance. YEAH !!!!

    Had Enough

  • Dia
    Dia

    Ooops...just edited my post upstairs. Sorry.

  • Eric
    Eric

    Thanks everyone for all of the continuing updates.

    Big ups to hawkaw for getting and keeping this in the media's eye. Great stuff.

    Thanks to those who are helping just a bit behind the scenes.

    Most of all, thank you Vicki for having the guts to get this case up in front of a Judge.

    Win or lose Vicki, this case has already won. In some ways you might not yet imagine.

    Hang in there, Vicki and Scott.

    Hang the Watchtower.

    Eric

  • Commie Chris
    Commie Chris

    I don't want to disappoint anyone, but it is not very significant that a good deal of argument by counsel was spent on assessing damages. This does not suggest that the Judge is inclined to rule in Vickie's favour - it does not suggest anything at all. It is simply normal trial practise in cases where judgment is reserved to have full argument on quantum of damages, apportionment of damages between defendants etc You cannot read too much into this.

    I practise constitutional law - at the conclusion of any trial a Judge will ask for submissions from counsel on appropriate remedies so that IF a constitutional violation is found, the Court does not have to return to counsel for submissions on remedies.

    I really hope Vickie wins this case, but the importance of this portion of the trial should not be exagerated.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    Chris,

    I must bow to your better judgement. You are a excellent lawyer

    However, I must admit I was encouraged by how the judge dismissed Silver's testimony yesterday, did not really agree with Stevenson summation today, spent a whole lot of time on costs and agreeing that due to the nature of the case she would take a long time to review the material prior to coming to a decision. Maybe its just me, but I just felt a lot better about this case and why I think she has a 60 percent shot at winning now.

    By the way counsel provided more information on the amount of damages, not because they wanted too, but because the Judge requested further information and she wanted to know what both counsel had in mind based on her thinking. The case should have been done at noon but it was the judge who kept going and kept pushing Charles Mark and not the lawyers arguing back and forth.

    hawk

  • sunshineToo
    sunshineToo

    Thanks, hawkaw, for another update!

    I think I read somewhere that Vicki's case WAS reported 6 months later to the authority. Did I misread? Do you think that's going to be a problem as far as forced-not-to-go-to-the-authority?

    I do hope things go well from now on for Vicki. It's been a long journey.

    Oh, by the way last year I saw an episode of "The Practice". There the jury awarded the plaintiff millions of $ for the damage in a civil suit. But the judge ignored the jury's decision, and made his own amount which was much lower. In another episode the defendant made apeal, and it went on and on. Can these happen in the Canadian judicial court? I hope not.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    From the Toronto Sun. Gee what an idiot Stevenson was in brining this out. What Stevenson was getting at was why did Vicki wait so long before suing. Questioning the "timing" of the suit. Vicki's "shrink" and lawyer had already dealt with this in testimony. Another ad hominem attack going no where. Note - he was not questioning what is in the Act because there is no statute of limitations for rpeorting abuse in the Child and Family Sevices Act.

    One note - this was a judge trial and not a jury trial. Yes the trial can be appealed by either side to Ontario's appeals courts and then end up in the Supeme Court of Canada. No doubt it the WTS looses, they will appeal because they care more about their "corporate" image than what is right.

    hawk

    http://www.canoe.ca/TorontoNews/ts.ts-09-25-0045.html

    Wednesday, September 25, 2002

    Suit's timing questioned

    Woman seeks $700Gs from church

    By IAN MCDOUGALL, TORONTO SUN

    A woman who has launched a $700,000 civil suit against the Jehovah's Witnesses fled the courtroom in tears yesterday during final arguments by the defence.

    The woman alleges the church was negligent in its handling of the sex abuse she suffered from her father between the ages of 11 and 14 in the family home in Shelburne, about 100 km northwest of Toronto, during the early 1980s.

    WAITED UNTIL 1998

    Church lawyer Colin Stevenson was challenging the woman's first-day testimony on the stand when she began crying.

    "If you don't accept (the woman's) recollection you end up in a situation where you have to question seriously all her recollections," he said.

    Stevenson went on to question the reason for the woman waiting until 1998 before she filed the suit when the church-related events happened in 1989 and LEFT COURTROOM

    The sex assault by her father happened between 1981 and 1985, court heard. "The time this is happening is not the day before," Stevenson said. "It was three or four years earlier. She's an adult, she's not living at home. She's living 100 km away."

    The woman then got up from her chair next to lawyer Charles Mark and left the courtroom.

    Stevenson also argued the woman waited too long before launching her suit and did not have a legitimate claim to damages.

  • TTBoy
    TTBoy

    Sometimes I wish here was a hell so WT lawyers could rot in it.

    TT

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    TTBoy said:

    Sometimes I wish here was a hell so WT lawyers could rot in it.

    I'll let the Bible speak about that:

    Luke 16:19: "Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day.
    Luke 16:20: A certain beggar, named Lazarus, was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    Luke 16:21: and desiring to be fed with the crumbs that fell from the rich man's table. Yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores.
    Luke 16:22: It happened that the beggar died, and that he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's Bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried.
    Luke 16:23: In Hades, he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far off, and Lazarus at his Bosom.
    Luke 16:24: He cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue! For I am in anguish in this flame.'
    Luke 16:25: "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you, in your lifetime, received your good things, and Lazarus, in like manner, bad things. But now here he is comforted and you are in anguish.
    Luke 16:26: Besides all this, between us and you there is a Great Gulf fixed, that those who want to pass from here to you are not able, and that none may cross over from there to us.'
    Luke 16:27: "He said, 'I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house;
    Luke 16:28: for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won't also come into this place of torment.'
    Luke 16:29: "But Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the Prophets. Let them listen to them.'
    Luke 16:30: "He said, 'No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
    Luke 16:31: "He said to him, 'If they don't listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.'"

    2nd Thessalonians 1:6: Since it is a righteous thing with God to repay affliction to those who afflict you,
    2nd Thessalonians 1:7: and to give relief to you that are afflicted with us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,
    2nd Thessalonians 1:8: giving vengeance to those who don't know God, and to those who don't obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus,
    2nd Thessalonians 1:9: who will pay the penalty: eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of His might,
    2nd Thessalonians 1:10: when He Comes to be glorified in His Saints, and to be admired among all those who have believed (because our Testimony to you was believed) in that day.

    Matthew 25:41: Then He will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the Eternal Fire which is prepared for the Devil and his angels;
    Matthew 25:42: for I was hungry, and you didn't give Me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me no drink;
    Matthew 25:43: I was a stranger, and you didn't take Me in; naked, and you didn't clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit Me.'
    Matthew 25:44: "Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help You?'
    Matthew 25:45: "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Most assuredly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to Me.'
    Matthew 25:46: These will go away into Eternal Punishment, but the righteous into Eternal Life."

    Isaiah 33:14: The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling has seized the godless ones: Who among us can dwell with the devouring fire? who among us can dwell with everlasting burning?

    Matthew 13:41: The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His Kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and those who do wickedness,
    Matthew 13:42: and will cast them into the Furnace of Fire. There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 13:49: So will it be in the End of the World. The angels will come forth, and separate the wicked from among the righteous,
    Matthew 13:50: and will cast them into the Furnace of Fire. There will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth."

    Matthew 3:12: His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly cleanse His threshing floor. He will gather His wheat into the barn, but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire."

    2nd Peter 2:4: For if God didn't spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to Pits of Darkness, to be reserved to judgment;

    Jude 1:6: Angels who didn't keep their first domain, but deserted their own dwelling place, He has kept in Everlasting Bonds under Darkness for the Judgment of the Great Day.
    Jude 1:7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, having, in the same way as these, given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the punishment of Eternal Fire.

    Revelation 14:9: Another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, "If anyone worships the Beast and his Image, and receives a Mark on his forehead, or on his hand,
    Revelation 14:10: he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger. He will be tormented with Fire and Sulfur in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.
    Revelation 14:11: The smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. They have no rest day and night, those who worship the Beast and his Image, and whoever receives the Mark of his name.
    Revelation 14:12: Here is the patience of the Saints, those who keep the Commandments of God, and the Faith of Jesus."

    Revelation 19:19: I saw the Beast, and the kings of the Earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His Army.
    Revelation 19:20: The Beast was taken, and with him the False Prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the Mark of the Beast and those who worshiped his Image. These two were thrown alive into the Lake of Fire that burns with Sulfur.

    Revelation 20:10: The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, where the Beast and the False Prophet are also. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
    Revelation 20:11: I saw a Great White Throne, and Him who sat on it, from whose face the Earth and the Heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.
    Revelation 20:12: I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the Throne, and they opened Books. Another Book was opened, which is the Book of Life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
    Revelation 20:13: The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works.
    Revelation 20:14: Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. This is the Second Death, the Lake of Fire.
    Revelation 20:15: If anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit