I never quite made it

by link 9 Replies latest jw experiences

  • link
    link

    If we take a look at the mental energy that must have been expended in contributing to threads on this board regarding various concepts of Christianity it does not seen unlikely that, if it could have been "bottled" and kept, it could be used to power the next space shuttle.

    Is this what Christianity is all about? Is it just one gigantic intellectual exercise that is only an option to those with the mental capacity to understand the never ending theorys put forward by all and sundry regarding its practice and Bible understanding? I believe that this would exclude at least two thirds of the worlds population from ever becoming, what many seem to believe are, true Christians.

    Just try wading through some of the threads on this board on Beliefs, Doctrines and Practices and what I am saying becomes obvious. The intellectual and technical discussions are fantastic if you happen to be an intellectual with an over active imagination, but what happens if youre not, where does that leave you?

    Some of the more recent Christian religions to come on the scene require a computer and the knowledge to use it in order to take part. There are many people in the world that would like to just have the electricty, never mind the computer.

    As far as I can see, the WTS with its "perm any two from a hundred" list of beliefs and doctrines are no more guilty than any of the other Christian religions in this respect

    Like most people, I do not have the answers, just the questions.

    I was a WTS study for about six years (a record?) and rose to the dizzy heights of Unbaptised Publisher. I should add that this was at the insistence of my JW family. Fortunately I was saved in a different way when new light was shed on new light, thus illuminating the fact that studies were baptised within six months or else. Consequently I got the boot. So (apart from this) what stopped me in my tracks?

    Simple! I just could not get my head round all the WTS material in a way that could make sense of it. But just as importantly I could not find a Witness who could either, and I met some high powered people during my six years. All I got in the way of answers from the most intelligent ones I could find was " Oh you are just not spiritual enough" and "Oh you dont want to find the truth" and "Oh you just do not have enough faith".

    Some of these people were those who had spent long periods in prison for their beliefs or years in Bethel (same thing?) or as missionaries so they had devoted their entire lives to something that I did not have the intellectual capacity to even understand. How wonderful!

    Apparently all this intellectual stuff can only be understood if you have enough faith to accept what you are told without question. This being the case why bother with it in the first place?

    Not understanding the concept of most of these fancy doctrines meant that I did not believe the most outrageous ones (607 1914, faithful and discreet slave etc) and since I could not possibly have ever tried to get someone else to believe them, this precluded me from continuing to go out on the Ministry.

    Any comments on faith versus intellect and where the dividing line is, if any?

    Or is the question too intellectual?

    link

  • yucca
    yucca

    eph 5:6 let no one deceive you with empty words for it is on account of these very sins that gods anger is coming upon the disobedient. jude 1:4-5 for certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. they are godless men, who change the grace of our god into a license for immorality and deny jesus christ our only sovereign and lord. 2cor 13:5 examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith;test yourselves. does gb show the fruits of the spirit love joy peace patience kindness goodness faithfulness gentleness and self control if not they must be the wrong religion. num. 32:23 be sure your sin will find you out sounds like wt sins are being revealed. so if you got disfellowship count your blessings bless those who left their selves. please do not give up on jesus christ he died for your sins and mine. find a church who preaches from the bible. some churchs go thru bible scripture by scripture thats how to learn gods word and read read bible yourselves to make sure what you hear is the truth. god bless yucca

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Hi There,

    I enjoyed your very honest and forthwright post here.

    When we are born, I really don't believe we are born with any special intellectual capacity. No doubt, some folks have the genetics to take them to great places. Some can learn faster, and have the ability to rise above others in many areas. But true intellect, is knowing what to do with the abilities one has. Not everyone has that, and it usually takes lots of years simply "living life" to get there.

    However, as smart as some people are, they can be kinda stupid in common, everyday matters of life. I was profoundly affected by the movie "A Beautiful Mind", because this is just so much the way we are.

    Each of us have gifts and sometimes we don't realize we have those gifts until we pursue "self development". In other words, there may appear to be a lot of very intelligent folks on here, and I'm certain there are many who have managed (dispite the JW non-education belief) to go to college and get those degrees. However, the best degree ever, is experience. No one can give you a degree for that. You have to earn it.

    Most of us on this forum have learned our lessons the hard way. We have done a tremendous amount of self educating, and we have broken free to read from books and magazines that we once were told were "empty teachings of man". There are so many different types of people, from all over the world on here, and we are all trying to "come to some feasible conclusion" about the part we play in all of it.

    A person doesn't have to be "smart" to be intellectual. I think what's happening here is that we are simply not going to take anyone's word for things any more, we are going to search and prove to ourselves what it is we believe. Knowledge in itself is nothing. We could read every book in the library, and yet if we found no way to apply it to our life, or to help another person, then it means nothing. We can grow in wisdom with the knowledge we gain, but it's not automatic.

    And, having said the above, if we have the knowledge and the wisdom, but don't have love, well........

    Sentinel

  • Xander
    Xander

    Any comments on faith versus intellect and where the dividing line is, if any?

    'Blind faith is for stupid people'

    Ummm....well....yeah, that's it.....

  • LuckyLucy
    LuckyLucy
    Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.
    Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
    Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
  • gold_morning
    gold_morning

    Hi Link,

    I do hear you. Yes, you can become so legalistic in worship that you LOSE Jesus. You lose out on what salvation is all about. You lose out on knowing him in all the thick muddle of religion.

    A realigion cannot save, knowledge cannot save. Simply said....only accepting Jesus can save you. Wonderful for us that it is that simple. He is in charge. WE don't have to be. He knows what is going on..he has all the answers. WE don't have to. We just have to be on his side and stay close to him.......like glue.

    Acts4:12..........."Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we mustbe saved." (and that includes the name of Jehovah's Witnesses)

    Ephesians 2:8........."It is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the GIFT of God---NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast." (so it is not by turning in field service hours, or by how many meetings you attend or any other work you can think of. This goes for JW's along with many other religious criteria, whether fasting or obstaining from things in this life to earn God's love and favor.)

    Is it knowledge and study of the scriptures that saves you? Listen to what Jesus said about that in John 5:39......."You diligently study the scriputures because you think by them you posses ieternal life. These are the scriptures that testify about me...yet you refuse TO COME TO ME TO HAVE LIFE."

    So it is not study of the scriptures and becoming bibically intelligent that saves you either. Jesus said in John 8:51 that if we follow him we will NEVER see death. He did not say that he who follows a certain pastor, religion or certain doctrine has life....but he who follows Him has life.

    Ephsians 3:19 says that LOVE surpasses knowledge.

    Basically what I am saying Link is this. Religion takes the focus off of Jesus and puts it on themselves. That is just what satan wants so that we get discouraged and give up. Religion makes it complicated. It makes it legalistic and foremost it does nothing but make one SELF-RIGHTEOUS. Only Jesus can make you righteous before God so that when we no longer have this fleshly body can be with Him.

    He paid our punishment.....death. He died and his last words were..."It is finished!!!" There is not one single thing we can do to add to that. He died as a GIFT to us. You don't have to do anything to receive a gift. Nothing, but to be thankful and truely love and Know Him. Irregardless of how smart we are or how much more someone understands scripture compared to us means not one iota in regards to our salvation and everlasating life.

    I am happy for the ones that have so much knowledge. I love to learn to. But my salvation is assured. It does not count on what I know. I have peace and do not worry what the furture holds. It makes no difference to me what happens because I am with him in THIS LIFE AS WELL AS HEAVENLY LIFE. That is what is so wonderful in knowing him. That is why Jesus says he gives peace. That his yoke is NOT HEAVY

    Remember Link,.....your faith.(no knowledge or intellegence) is what is the assured expectation of things hoped for.

    May I add...that the best love is one based on trust. WE all know that. It is what we look for in a marriage mate. That is the love we have with Christ. We trust him to the fullest. Besides.......where else do we go?

    It is an important decisian.......because rest assure there is only two choices. Eternity with him or eternity without him.

    lots of agape love gold morning

  • link
    link

    Thanks everyone for your responses, there is food for thought here.

    gold morning:

    We just have to be on his side and stay close to him.......like glue.

    How do we do that?

    link

  • goatlike
    goatlike

    hope (faith) keeps fools alive

    reality - oh whatta concept...so crazy it just might work!

    (i lost my jesus in the washroom once.. thank god the toilet didn't flush)

    cool post link

  • SPAZnik
    SPAZnik

    lol Xander, i luv yer profile pic.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Faith vs knowledge ?

    I always maintaintained that they were one and the same , and I would quote my trusty "Aid " book p.1619 where it discussed John 4.24 and said "Such worship could not be based on imagination but woud have to conform to what is in harmony with the actual state of things, consistant with what God has revealed about himself and his purposes."

    The apostle Paul, for instance "Proved logically" that Jesus was the Christ, he did not rely on faith and emotion (Acts 9.22)

    So "The truth " has to be proveable truth on matters that are factual.. Maybe that is why I was able to seriously question it when the net showed many things that are just not so.

    But to the committed dub who will not ask questions of the leadership, all "Wordly knowlege" is suspect. Scientists are atheistic tools of Satan unless they make statements in favour of W T doctrines, and "God has hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones, and revealed them to babes" (Matt 11.25.) A useful verse to quote if things appear to be at odds with established science

    So, Babylon captured Jerusalem in 607 bce, because the WT says it did The number of 144000 includes all the first century Christians and the remnant, because Brooklyn says so. The signs of the times are obviously here , despite an objective comparisom with history showing that terrible things happened in the past as well ... and so on

    I guess if you want to believe it enough then it all makes sense

    Edited by - BluesBrother on 26 September 2002 10:36:12

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