The Key to Understanding Scripture

by Zechariah 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Dearest Kelsey... may you have peace... and may you know that the Bible is NOT the word of God, nor does it say that it is... ANYwhere in it! It does, however, tell you what... or rather whom... IS the Word of God: John 1:1, 3, 9; Revelation 19:13

    And it is that Word that says that if we want everlasting life, rather than READ about him and the things written about him... all we need do is... simply... COME TO HIM!

    John 5:39, 40

    Ahhh, dear Zechariah... Zechariah, Zechariah... Zechariah... where shall I start? Okay, the beginning sounds like a good place:

    I think you really need to chill.

    Okay, cool! Or, rather, as TRULY chillin' folks would say, "'K... Coo'!" (I'm black, so I know how to do that... chill and talk like I'se chillin'... real well!)

    I dont see how you could possibly have concluded I think Gods spirit is the teacher as I have relied upon it greatly for wisdom and understanding.

    I'm a-hopin' you meant, "think God's spirit is NOT the teacher..." but correct me if'n I'm wrong...

    What I have described as the key to understanding is just a way of focusing on what the Holy Spirit inspires to understand about the purpose the scriptures were written.

    Yes, and then I gave you and the good folks here the actual KEY... and the One who grants it, yes? And I did give you credit where it was due, yes?

    If anybody needs cautioning on their blasphemous rhetoric it is you.

    I gave the credit for what I received to the One who granted it to me... and his means of granting it. From whom did you receive YOUR 'knowledge'... and to whom/what did YOU give credit? Do you REMEMBER what blasphemy is, Zechariah? Or are you like the man who "looks at his face in a mirror and then goes off and immediately forgets what kind of man he is?"

    Is it not you that presumptuously implies that the impartial God and creator of us all has a special relationship with you wherein you claim him uniquely as your God.

    My relationship is no more "special" than any other member of Christ's Body. To that end, then we are ALL 'special'... indeed a people for 'special possession,' yes? And how can He be uniquely my God, when He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Elijah, Enoch, Noah, Abel, Amos, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Melchizedek, John (the Baptist), John (the Apostle)... and many, many, MANY others... including my Lord, His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who himself is recorded to have said, "I am going my way to my God... AND your God?" I have NEVER made such a claim; but you, in all of your great... ummm... intelligence... have attempted to misrepresent my meaning when I say "My Lord" and "my Father", which I do in the SAME way as any child of the household would speak when referring to his own father to others. Does that mean that such child has no siblings... is an ONLY child?

    You imply that we all need to fear your pronouncements in his name.

    Again, you err (and I won't say "outright lie", as I am not yet directed to question your motive... again). I do not speak pronoucements in the name of God. I do, however, speak the TRUTH... as it is 'given' to be BY the Truth (John 14:6), just as I RECEIVE it from that One... to the best of my ability... and unlike some who wish to receive accolades for their OWN wisdom... I confess I have none: I don't KNOW any of these things... in and of myself... and so MUST attribute it origin to its true Source. Otherwise, I am a plagerizer, a thief, a plunder... and a liar... taking credit for what is NOT mine.

    It is a name that you imply that only you know

    Uh, Zech, dear... MANY know it... and knew it. Can you say, "Hallel u JAH?" Do you know what that MEANS? It means... praise... hallel... you... u... JAH... jah. And my Father's name is not hidden; indeed, it is written down for ALL to see and has been used in MANY a name - Psalm 68:4 (can you say, Eli Jah (Elijah)? How 'bout "Jah Shua" (Joshua)? Jah El (Jo El)? Ben Jah Min?

    and who's voice you are the only one who HEARS.

    (chuckle) No, I don't. For if that were the case, I would be the ONLY 'sheep'. Yet, my Lord says that his sheep (and I would think he meant sheep as in many... not one)... hear his voice. Check it out (see? Still chillin'...) - John 15:27

    Your problem is exactly what I indicated in my post. You fail to look at things spiritually.

    O contrare, mon frare... for it is by MEANS of spirit that I 'see' and 'hear'... and know... what it is I do. I cannot do so with my flesh, for the flesh is of no use at all. No, it's is the SPIRIT that is life... and thus, I CAN say I 'see'..., that I am no longer pitiable, naked, miserable and blind... for I received EYESALVE... holy spirit... from the One who HOLDS the 'key'. DIRECTLY from him... and not from some earthling man who precedes his name with "Pastor", or "Reverend", or "Pope", nor who has some fancy title like "Bishop" or "Elder" or "Member of the GB," but only his name, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, which means "Jah Saves; Chosen/Anointed of Jah"... and the "title" of "King of kings, Lord of Lords, Eternal Father... Son of God... and WORD of God... among many.

    If you did you would understand that the hearing as well as sight christians have is not physical but spiritual.

    I understood that. And I understood that YOU understood that. However, you misstated what the "key" was... and I was directed by my Lord to correct you. Now, I do know that it is true that NO discipline is joyous, but grievous... however, it does yield PEACEABLE 'fruit', yes? How is it, then, that when I speak the truth to you... as it has been given me to do by the spirit of God, as granted through His Son... YOU do not HEAR? Had I come in my OWN name... you would have listened. However, since I came in the name of that One... by means of the direction of his holy spirit... you consider me false? Again, I would caution you regarding blasphemy. You do not have to listen me, Zechariah, for I am nothing more than a lowly servant. I was given a message to deliver to you... YOU who believe yourself righteous, yet chafes at hearing truth. Wonder WHY I was given it...

    You need to address yourself to someone who cares.

    Perhaps the spirit believed I was... or perhaps my Lord KNEW you to be a hard-headed, hard-hearted, stiff-necked man (which would explain it, as that in itself most assuredly proves you to be "Israel"... he that contends with God...). If that is true, then again, the warning is self-explanatory, for whether you be an Israel... or a 'false prophet' posing as one... it is you who are contending, not me.

    I have my own personal (not special) relationship with the creator

    Hypocrite... what's the difference? Does not that fact that it is "personal" make it "special"? I, too, have a personal... and special... relationship with God. I do not, however, have an EXCLUSIVE relationship, nor have I ever said or implied that I did. It is your 'dark' heart that makes such claim.

    and realize that he has no hangups of what name we formally call him.

    In this you err. And perhaps that is why you DON'T hear the Spirit... because there are MANY spirits... and you have not yet distinguished that 'voice'. But I must ask you: unless you SPEAK to God (or at least to Christ), how is it that you KNOW... or rather 'realize'... that He has no hangups? Did He TELL you?

    The Bible prophecied that in these the last days all people will come to know Gods name.

    It also said that God would pour out some of His spirit and people, including women, would prophesy. Yet, you condemn me for all three: knowing God's name, crediting His spirit, and prophesying. WHO is it, again, that YOU are 'listening' to?

    If as my post suggests one thinks spiritually on this they will realize that it simply suggests that all will become aware they are creation and God is the Creator of us all.

    Okay, now THINK about what you just said: IF one thinks... implying that one... may NOT... they will realize that ALL will become aware. If ALL will become aware, why admonish them to THINK... spiritually or at all? Why not let them just WAIT... until they 'become aware', since they are ALL going to anyway, according to you?

    The creator is the creator by any other name. Says he: "I am that I am".

    No, actually He said that He would PROVE who He was/is... and He HAS/does: JAH... who brings into existence... or causes to become... armies. Whether it is the armies of the heavens (spirit beings), the armies of the skies (stars, etc.), the armies of the seas (sea life), the armies of the fields (vegetation) , the armies of the earth (man and beast, flying creature, insect, etc.).

    You need to save your divine proclamations and warnings on someone who cares.

    And you need to read Amos 7:12, 13... and know that I was not a prophet, nor the daughter of one and am nothing more NOW... than a servant... to the Household of God, Israel... of which perhaps you are a 'son', which is why I was directed to speak to you... AS your servant... and a slave of Christ. You, however, keep PROVING yourself to be a 'son' of Israel... for in the same manner as did your forefathers BEFORE you, rather than humble yourself and HEAR the spirit... you wish the kill the messenger. You should have 'tested' the inspired expression FIRST, dear Zechariah, before you CONDEMNED it. But then, I cannot fault you for being true to your blasphemous nature.

    I know you dont speak for God anymore than the Governing Body of the WTS.

    Again, I don't speak FOR God, nor do I speak FOR His Son, my Lord. I only spoke what they DIRECTED me to speak... and told you from WHOM the message came. The GB, on the other hand, tells you who their messages come from: "the faithful and discreet slave", which they considered themselves to be. Thus, it is THEIR message... from themselves.

    They never scared me and certainly you dont.

    It was NEVER my intent to scare you, Zechariah. If fear came up in this matter, then I suggest you examine yourself as to why. However, it WAS my intent to hear... and obey... and 'warn' you. I had no choice, truly. You can decide for yourself where you fit into this by reading Ezekiel 3:17-21.

    I shared with honest intent my opinions and inspirations.

    I have been directed to direct YOU... to examine your heart... in the LIGHT (John 8:11; 3:19-21)... to see if that statement is true.

    It up to everyone to test them for theirselves to see if their from God (true).

    I refer you to the above.

    I've tested for myself in moments your inspired utterances and determined them not to be from God (true).

    Name one, Zechariah. One.

    I have great love for God and my fellowman.

    Again, I would examine if that statement is true. Personally, I have great love for God... and Christ... but I have to work on my love for my fellowman. Daily. Constantly. And it's not always easy. But I OWE them my love, and thus strive to pay that debt. I do better some days than others. Some days, I don't do so good at all. But... that is the TRUTH.

    Therefore I am a righteous man.

    And I, nothing more than a good-for-nothing-slave... who has nothing more than what I OUGHT to have done... which was obeyed my Lord... and warned my brother. The 'reward'? From you, well, what do you expect from Israel... who even forgot to give praise to God three days out of Egypt, who, in a matter of a few hours, built an idol of gold, in the image of a eater of vegetation... because they could not SEE Moses? Whose glory do YOU truly seek, Zechariah?

    A servant to the Household of God, Israel... whether they HEAR... or they refrain... and a slave of Christ, to time indefinite,

    SJ

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    I correctly accused skeptics of having abandonment issues which include fear of further disappointment and mistrust and disrespect of God. It is because of these skeptics (unbelievers) are not willing to accept any evidence as credible that supports his existence.

    Zecharaiah, continually reasserting your position doesn't count as evidence. Saying that everyone who believes differently to you do has psychological issues, only makes you look pathetic and unprepared for debate.

    The only way I can ever hope to recover those who have given up their belief in God is to force them to stop deluding themselves about why the disbelieve. It has nothing to do wth evidence. I as a believer am very willing to admit my opinions are facillitated by what I desire to believe. The thing is to recognize it is the same for everyone. Belief is a exercise of choice.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. The only way you're going to convince anybody of anything is if you stop thinking that people who don't share your beliefs are "deluding themselves" and consider their claims on their merits. You may choose to believe whatever you consider beneficial, but many people, myself included, believe what the available evidence compels them to believe.

    I certainly am not going to change my opinion as I have weighed the pros and cons and found no benefit in unbelief

    Belief should not be about a cost-benefit analysis. You should believe something only because it is true, not because it seems "better" than the alternatives in some subjective way.

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    I certainly am not going to change my opinion as I have weighed the pros and cons and found no benefit in unbelief

    Oy! That sounds like a true JW if I ever heard one: given the choice of a paradise on earth and... what, destruction at Armageddon?... what "benefit" is there in disbelieving their teachings?

    Isn't it that very type of thinking that keeps a great many JW's enslaved, Zechariah? Methinks so!

    A slave of Christ

    SJ

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Oy! That sounds like a true JW if I ever heard one: given the choice of a paradise on earth and... what, destruction at Armageddon?... what "benefit" is there in disbelieving their teachings?

    Isn't it that very type of thinking that keeps a great many JW's enslaved, Zechariah? Methinks so!

    Shelby, something must be very wrong! I find myself agreeing with you!

    A slave of Christ
    And not a trace of irony. Oh well...
  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Thank you, FunkyD, and glad I was permitted to say something that you "clicked" with...

    Peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    zecharaiah wrote:

    'The only way I can ever hope to recover those who have given up their belief in God is to force them to stop deluding themselves about why the disbelieve. It has nothing to do wth evidence. I as a believer am very willing to admit my opinions are facillitated by what I desire to believe. The thing is to recognize it is the same for everyone. Belief is a exercise of choice'

    dude, you must chill. MOST people on this board are ex or anti or disillusioned jw's; they have become expert at resisting anyone telling them what to think, how to think or that they are in need of help to get in contact with god.

    You are way over your head here, trust me.

  • Zechariah
    Zechariah

    transfered to correct thread
    Sorry

    Edited by - zechariah on 24 September 2002 1:8:57

  • Zechariah
    Zechariah

    Spoken like a hypocritical skeptic who never can resist an opportunity to tell believers their wasting their time. You are trying to demonize me by making stupid comparisons to JWs. Am I supposed to feel some guilt from sharing my opinions. This is a discussion board aint it.

    Zechariah

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    'The only way I can ever hope to recover those who have given up their belief in God is to force them to stop deluding themselves about why the disbelieve. It has nothing to do wth evidence. I as a believer am very willing to admit my opinions are facillitated by what I desire to believe. The thing is to recognize it is the same for everyone. Belief is a exercise of choice'

    Sigh! Zech, dear, you are entirely forgetting my Lord's words as recorded at John 6:44 and 15:16. True, "we" are to "go make disciples", but it is not we who choose such ones. Acts 8:26; 9:1-16; 10:4

    IF you would condescend to give the GLORY to the One who SENT you... if indeed he did send you (and I cannot see how, as you continue to blaspheme, but who am I to judge the house servant of another?)... you MIGHT still be shown God's mercy. But thinking that you can FORCE anyone... to do anything... well, it is you who is deluding himself. If you wish folks to "return" to God, then, the only thing YOU can do... is MANIFEST God to them... by YOUR 'works'. Perhaps then, their hearts will soften, allowing God, through Christ, to enter into them. However, if you CONTINUE with your... self-righteousness, even anger, then will you not be in danger of transgressing the Law even further by becoming a son of Cain?

    The CHOICE, then, Zechariah... to glorify God, rather than yourself, and to be kind toward any who might be sheep, "whether they hear... or they refrain,"... is yours.

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

    Wher

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit