Demons, hallucinations, hypnotism, and our brains.

by seven006 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • seven006
    seven006

    I haven't posted much lately because of time restraints but I still do read the board as often as I can. In the past few days the subject of demons and personal sanity has come up in a few threads. I would like to add a few thoughts on the subject based on some personal research in the areas of psychology, hypnotism, hallucination, and a basic study of the human brain.

    Everything a person has seen, heard, touched, smelled or tasted in their life time has been processed and stored in their brain. What makes some look smarter than others is simply a more developed ability to recall those experiences dealing with their five senses and bring them back into recall. Our five senses are used as a basic receptacle for what they experience but it is our brains that processes and stores those experiences and tries to tell us what it is or is not. It is not our eyes, ears, tongue, nose, or fingers that remember an experience it is our brains. Where belief comes in is when we are told of a certain existence of a particular subject matter and instead of depending on our two most reliable senses of sight and hearing we depend on our brains to develop a picture to process and store the information we are told about. The stories that conjure up images of evil and scary looking demons is process and stored in our brains via the faith in the person or persons that are telling us about the subject. Whether we tangibly see touch or hear ourselves becomes secondary in the fact that the information is still processed and stored in our brains. A belief system attempts to eliminate any tangible personal experience and tries to make the brain accept as fact something we have not personally experienced with our five known senses.

    In the case of someone who is suffering from a specific kind of psycological disorder they do experience what they see in their own minds as something tangible and real but in reality what they see or experience is a sophisticated delusion. Certain drugs create hallucinations that during the time the person is experiencing the hallucination what they think they see or experience is extremely real to them but again is nothing more than a delusion. This is something that I myself have experienced. In the same line of thought someone who is under a hypnotic trance and is given a suggestion of something nonexistent being real and tangible to them they do indeed see, feel, touch, taste, and hear what has been suggested to them. I have learned the basics of hypnotism myself and have put people under a hypnotic trance and have given them suggestions that at that particular time was as real to them as anything they have experienced in a non-hypnotic trance. Except for the person suffering from a psychological disorder you can ask yourself if someone thinks they see something that is actually not there are they crazy? The answer is no!

    When you look at the incredibly complex makeup of our brain and it's ability to control our entire body on both a conscious and unconscious level as well as it's ability to store more information than all the combined computer hard drives on the planet it makes you wonder about what we do not know about it more than what we do. Are demons or the sprit realm real or are they only real in our minds? If everything we know to be true and real is stored in our brains along with everything we believe or have faith in, where do we draw the line on what is real or not? Is it our two main senses of sight and hearing that are the absolute and final indicators to us about what is real or not? Is belief such a strong human element that it can turn fantasy and myth into reality in our minds? Is a delusion or a hallucinations not real or are they simply not tangible? These are questions I have asked myself many times.

    I personally do not believe in demons or the sprit realm, but that again, that is simply a belief. I have no tangible evidence either way on the subject. Until I do have tangible evidence either way the subject matter will stay in the realm of belief which balances to the side of it not being real based on my personal investigations and studies. I do know that under the influence a hallucinogen what I have seen or heard at that moment was real to me. Having known what I saw and experienced was done while hallucinating I can then process that in my brain that the experience was not real. Without the knowledge that I was indeed hallucinating what I experienced might be processed in my brain as something very real. I know when I have put a person under a hypnotic trance what they saw or felt was real to them at that particular moment. When the brain is fed information and it is processed and stored there are many variables that can stimulate and bring that information to recall. Until we know everything there is to know about our brains and exactly how they work it is impossible to have a definitive answer on personal experiences and what brain function or malfunction stimulated a possible non-tangible experience.

    Just as in a momentary state of daydreaming which we have all experienced, what is real and tangible in front of us and what the brain is showing us in that momentary daydream exist in an instantaneous parallel plain. If that daydream can be controlled by yourself or by someone else and it continues it forces you to break from tangible reality and briefly accept an alternative reality, what is real and what is fantasy become blurred and intertwined. That is the basis of both hypnotism and self hypnosis in its simplest form. This is how I understand it when people say they have experienced demonic encounters. Their brain simply does not separate the tangible from the belief. The belief becomes tangible and is convincing the human senses of sight, and hearing that what they are experiencing is indeed real. They are no more insane or crazy than anyone who has ever daydreamed or has walked in their sleep or held a real conversation with someone while they are dreaming in the middle of the night. Their experience may not be real to me or to many of us, but, at that moment and dependent on what state of mind they were in, it could be very real to them.

    I could go on and on about this subject but this post is too damn long in the first place so I will stop here. I just thought I would add another element to the topic of demons and sanity.

    Take care,

    Dave

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    I love that everyone is able to post thoughts, experiences, and opinions on this site. Very informative information above.

    From my personal experience, I do believe in ghosts. My whole family saw it, many times. We know that it was not from imagination, or anything else, for we all saw it, and described it perfectly, and seperate from each other. In fact, we had not spoken about it while we lived there, nor with each other, not until many years later.

    Scary, don't know what to make of it, but I know it existed. We were taught that if those things existed, they were certainly demons. I do not believe this was a demon, nor did it ever hurt us. Sure scared the crap out of me though, and now as an adult, of course I would move in an instant if that happened again.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Thanks Dave, interesting reading

    I could not help thinking of the film "A Beautiful Mind" , in which the audience is conned into believing that delusions are real and only slowly did we grasp the point, (At least on my part)

    This raises questions about all aspects of faith and the activity of God in our lives . I knew some who were easily convinced that God had acted or directed things for them , and even then I was skeptical - realising that we see what we want to see and can convince ourselves of what we want to believe.

    The human brain is a wonderful thing , a pity that our mind sometimes lets it lead us astray.

  • seven006
    seven006

    Freedom,

    Since I have never seen a ghost or a UFO for that matter I can't say I believe in them or not. I try to keep my thinking out of the belief area and more on the factual side as possible. For where I sit in my life right now I would say I would probably be more inclined to believe in UFO's than I would ghosts. I will never argue about what you say you saw or not, there is still too much that is not known about our life on this little blue ball in the universe.

    Personally I would love to have an experience like that. I think it might help me sway my thinking a bit more to the fun side than the logical side. For now I simply keep an open mind and try not to laugh at anything.

    You just never know.

    Dave

  • nilfun
    nilfun

    Seven006,

    Once a devotee of Santeria let me
    stay at their place for a while.
    Shortly after going to bed I began
    seeing things and hearing voices.

    Scary.

    Since I still had the JW mindset
    at that time, my first thought
    was that it must be demons!

    Later I recalled that I was given something to drink
    by my host.I realized the drink must have contained
    something hallucinagenic!

    Too bad I didn't understand it for what it
    was at the time. I could have just
    just been aware to the experience
    while I waited for it to pass.

    I grew up constantly hearing about
    demons and demon attacks, so I am
    not surprised that that was the
    first thing I thought of. Now I know
    better... :)

  • seven006
    seven006

    BluesBrother,

    You make a very interesting point. North was indeed clinically insane to a certain extent but chose to put his delusions into perspective. By asking another person if they saw the same thing he did he could decide in his own mind if what he saw was a delusion or reality. If what he saw was a truly a delusion and several other people said that it was also real he would indeed believe his actual delusion was real.

    Having others verify or discount your own thoughts is the basis of religion today and through out history. It only takes a few people to agree that what you think is right or real is in fact true to make you believe it yourself and those who agree with you. Whether it is true or not is irrelevant as long as you have others agree with you that it is real. Belief does not work with complete absolutes and when the belief is taken one step further into faith you can convince the one with that faith of anything.

    I have always thought that religions as well as groups like the skin heads, and KKK sought out members for many of the same reasons. Religion has always reminded me of the children's story about the emperors new clothes.

    Dave

    Edited by - seven006 on 13 September 2002 16:20:36

  • seven006
    seven006

    nilfun,

    There is nothing like a good hallucination to make you appreciate reality. The few that I have had were under prescribe medication........I think.....most of them....ya,.......... definitely prescribed.

    Being able to put what is real or not real into perspective is the key. Reality is not much fun some times. Fantasy is like recess for our hectic and sometimes boring lives. People love fantasy and myth, if they didn't we would all be home doing math problems all the time instead of watching TV, reading books, going to church, playing video games and going to the movies.

    Dave

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    UFO'S are certainly an interesting idea Dave. Maybe a good post down the road.

    I hesitate saying anything, for fear of being a "wacko." As my years as a witness, we were told we had all the answers. Come to find out of course, they didn't have any. So what does one believe now. The only benefit I saw from my experience seeing what I saw, was knowing, wow, I don't have all the answers, there is more to life than just what we see, and how exciting it will be one day to have the answers.

    For those who doubt ghosts, or UFO's, etc, it is hard to imagine that the ones who say they saw it are "all there", however I am sure that there are things out there we just cannot explain.

    I guess we will all find out one day!

  • seven006
    seven006

    freedom,

    UFO's have been talked about several times on this board as well as subjects ranging from suicide to belly button lint. Your new so you can't know most of the subjects here have been talked to death. Then they get resurrected into a new thread about having pet tigers and grapes the size of basketballs.

    Don't worry about being considered a "wacko" most of the people on this board are half crazy most of the time to begin with. It's what keeps things interesting and alive.

    Your right, we will find out the truth about all this stuff once we are dead. It gives us all something to look forward to.

    Dave

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Hey Dave this is an interesting thread....

    Now of course the "New agers" preach that we are all fragments of God mind "fragmented" into physicality. A 3 dimensional experiment, if you like, by a God experiencing "physicality" and "mind "fragmentation".

    As a part (fragment) of Godmind we manifest "thought forms" if these thought forms are meditated upon intensely enough, and if enough "fragments" (individuals) meditate upon them, the thought form can manifest in to "reality",or "Physicality". 3 dimensional form . If thats the case God the loving has made a big mistake, I think, fragmenting himself into 3 dimensional space, All this hate manifested. All this Fear. And all these thought forms on evil demonic forces. Maybe there wasnt a Hell or a Devil or a Demon before....but We are busy CREATING them!!!

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