So how do you explain

plmkrzy

I asked this Q in another Thread but thought the Question might fit in better over here in Bible Research

Thinking out loud again

It doesn't seem to matter what bible you read, unless you're looking for discrepancies in translation it's not easy to just abandon the big picture. Unless you didn't really buy it to begin with, starting at childhood.

For those who were born and raised in it, how do you completely abandon all teachings based on specific screw-ups of a few men?

Obviously a lot of posters here still have faith in the scriptures, just not the interpretation they were previously taught.

So how do you explain "Restoration" Unless you believe the Garden of Eden was a myth and Genesis is all metaphor?

And if it is all metaphor, then what do you think "Restoration" is referring to?

Restoration of what?

We are here on this tiny planet and if Genesis is not partially literal then what the hell are we doing here in the first place?

Example, check this out:

(during their journey when giving birth to Benjamin)

Genesis 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (Bethlehem), 20 and Jacob set up a pillar upon her grave; it is the pillar of Rachel's tomb, which is there to this day.

This passage sounds like Moses is telling a story to a child sitting on his lap. And the words "which is there to this day" says that it became some sort of land mark or at least withstood time and was not just covered with dust and dirt and then disappeared. Up to the day Moses was telling the story anyway.

Any takers?

Edited by - plmkrzy on 31 August 2002 9:6:52

Tower Man

If one was to believe that the bible is a metaphor they would have no clue what restoration means. However, if you take it all literally, except where a literal interpretation is not possible, you would come to the conclusion that God will restore repentant mankind spiritually (refering to being forgiven, sinless & in a relationship with him again) and also physically (new heavens and new earth Rev 21, the Lion & wolf lying down together Isaiah 11) during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Also, read Romans 8:18-23. It talks about all of creation groaning for restoration.

I don't know if this is what you were looking for or not.

Tower Man

onacruse

Careful, Plum, before your brain explodes!

I still believe in 2 things: There is a God, and the Bible is His inspired word. I was raised with these convictions, and in spite of the disappointments of my former religion, I still believe in, and am comfortable with, these 2 tenets.

OTOH: There is a lot of latitude for interpretation. I believe there was a literal Garden of Eden, but I can't prove it. I want the earth to be restored to a paradise, but I can only hope for it.

Craig (of the eschewing dogmatism class)

A Paduan

I do believe all the bible stories are not all just "stories" (myth) - but they are spiritual teaching - the historical / fact perspective of the story is simply not what it's all about.

I think you're very perceptive regarding the "child on the knee". I like hearing the stories - dad telling us scary things (and having a go at us). I particularly liked Jesus telling us the one about being better to have a 'millstone around the neck and cast into the sea' - it certainly is better to be weighed down with sin and dwell at the bottom than to misguide children.

paduan

I thought I should ask, what do jws think 'inspired' even means?

Edited by - a paduan on 1 September 2002 11:3:18

searchfothetruth

Just to answer from my own point of view, since I was brought (dragged ) up as a witness and left when I was 27, I can say quite honestly that I was as entrenched in the witness world as anyone.

But when I read the Guardian article on the Witnesses joining the UN, I reacted as any witness would and said to myself that it was fabrication and lies, but how wrong I was!

It was just like a long line of dominoes come crashing down and along with that crash went my belief that the Bible is inspired and anything other than a collection of books that were written, mainly, after the event. ( Daniel etc)

The contradictions in the stories in the 4 gospels alone discounts the bible being inspired.

For Example:

1. Did Jesus go to Cana soon after his baptism?

a. Yes. John 1:29-36 No: Matthew 3:13-17 (Wilderness for 40 days)

2. Did the centurian himself come to Jesus?

a. Yes. Matthew 8:5-6 No. Luke 7:3,6 ( He sent others )

3. Did Jesus heal the leper before going to Peter's house?

a. Yes. Matthew 8:1-3, 14-15 No. Mark 1:29-31 ( It was after )

I could go on. I have a list of over 100 contradictions in the gospels alone. If anyone says it is because they were written as eye-witness accounts by imperfect men, then that is not what the society or witnesses believe, but the bible is inspired of God, and we know he wouldn't make mistakes about were Jesus was and in what order things happened.

Sorry i've rambled on but I have no faith in the bible the more I look at it and if this makes me a bad person then I know i'm in the right place.

A Paduan

As I asked, what do jws think 'inspired' even means?

Sounds like another word for the jw to english dictionary - inspired : jw language = historically accurate

paduan

ISP

Search...

I agree. The gospel accounts are dated 2nd century. The first century writers like Paul do not recall any of Jesus sayings, miracles, teachings etc.

ISP

pseudoxristos

It doesn't seem to matter what bible you read, unless you're looking for discrepancies in translation it's not easy to just abandon the big picture. Unless you didn't really buy it to begin with, starting at childhood.

I was raised as a Baptist, and I never once really doubted that the Bible was God's word. I started having serious doubts after my wife (now ex-wife) became a Witness and started trying to convert me. The more Witnesses showed me that some of my former beliefs were incorrect, the more I wanted to know the "Real Truth". I had to start from scratch and base my new beliefs on facts and not what someone had taught me as a child. After studying Biblical Criticism, I realized that there were reasonable explanations to how the Bible could have be composed not by inspiration but by mere Men. Many of the cornerstones of the Christian religion, such as the fulfilled prophecies, no longer seemed convincing. The problems with the Biblical Flood and the fact that the book of Daniel is obviously a pseudopigraph are the two main points that convinced me that the Bible is just a clever book of stories.

pseudoxristos

edited for spelling and clarification

Edited by - pseudoxristos on 1 September 2002 19:33:36

plmkrzy

Tower Man

Thanks for the comments. I should tell you though as soon as I reached this part of your post,

You would come to the conclusion that God will restore repentant mankind spiritually (referring to being forgiven, sinless & in a relationship with him again) and also physically I knew exactly what the rest of your comment was going to be.

No offense Tman Its just that when one (me in this case) has been raised with a set guideline to follow regarding interpreting NWT (Via WTS) there comes a time when it isnt even necessary to bother with picking up the bible at all. I have seen more JWs at meetings WTSs not even picking up their Bible more then once or twice at best. Instead reading and quoting from the WT (if its a WT Study)

Regardless of how many times or how much a dub reads, the out come is predestined. You will believe what you are told or admonished to believe what you are told until the GB says otherwise.

I wonder if that might be one reason some exDubs decide to chuck the entire idea of GOD and chose to believe in only one self? They can at least look in the mirror everyday and see the same person there and always will. No one is going to (well probably not) sneak into your home whilst youre sleeping and switch heads with you so when you get up and wash your face, look in the mirror you will discover AHHH! NEW LIGHT IS APON ME! Im not who I thought I was I am now this guy! There is a lot less to loose and a lot less to count on if you limit whom you put your trust.

Paduan:

but they are spiritual teaching - the historical / fact perspective of the story is simply not what it's all about.

I have to agree with that. For one simple, well maybe not simple, reason I spent my entire life paying attention to religion of all sorts and the one thing they all seem to have in common is conflict. Either with themselves or others.

Another very important thing they all have in common is the Bible.

So for me it has been a matter of trying to step back and attempt so SEE whats wrong with this big picture?

Ive personally never heard more arguments and conflicts regarding anything (not even politics) then I have the bible.

Something is really really wrong when massive amounts of people dive into the inspired word of god and come out fighting.

Plum

BTW

I will not a lot of time lately (few days) to keep up here but I have read all the responses and have enjoyed them all. Thank you and by all means continue.

OH yeh, ONACRUSE

O- thats keyboard for sticks out tongue.

plum

Mac

Ona, I believe these two things to be true:

1) The Reptilians are the true rulers of this planet.

2) The spaceship is coming for us soon.

I can't prove this to be true but feel comfortable with it!

So how do you explain

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