"Theocratic Warfare" LYING IS GOOD!

by UnDisfellowshipped 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    I sat through TWO WEEKS of testimony from JWs against an EXJW dad in a child custody court hearing, and the JW wife lied through her TEETH with the prompting of the Watchtower hit men attorneys that were present on her side. They SNEERED at us the entire time and laughed as they walked down the halls past us. It was...the most disgusting display of arrogance and hatred I had ever seen. The judge decided to award joint custody...she was aiming for sole custody. She was caught on tape on HIS answering machine...saying to her mother that she was going to wait until he was alone in the house and set FIRE to it and KILL him! It was not admissible in court because she didnt know she was being recorded.

    Christians my ass.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Francois said:

    Show me the scripture in which Jesus deliberately makes a deceitful statement; where he engages in "Spiritual Warfare." I want to know where it is.

    -francois

    There is absolutely none! The Lord Jesus Christ could NOT LIE!

    Here are some Scriptures that show that Jesus NEVER LIED or DECEIVED (All these Scriptures are from the "World English Bible"):

    Isaiah 53:9: They made His grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in His death; although He had done no violence, neither was any deceit in His mouth.

    2nd Corinthians 5:21: For Him who knew no sin He made to be sin on our behalf; so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

    Hebrews 4:15: For we don't have a High Priest who can't be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.

    Hebrews 7:26: For such a High Priest was fitting for us: Holy, guiltless, undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher than the Heavens;
    Hebrews 7:27: who doesn't need, like those High Priests, to daily offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins, and then for the sins of the people. For this He did once for all, when He offered up Himself.

    1st Peter 2:21: For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example, that you should follow His steps,
    1st Peter 2:22: who did not sin, "neither was deceit found in His mouth."
    1st Peter 2:23: Who, when He was reviled, didn't revile back. When He suffered, didn't threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;
    1st Peter 2:24: who His Own Self bore our sins in His Body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live to righteousness; by whose stripes you were healed.
    1st Peter 2:25: For you were going astray like sheep; but are now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

    1st John 3:5: You know that He was revealed to take away our sins, and in Him is no sin.

    John 18:19: The High Priest therefore asked Jesus about His Disciples, and about His Teaching.
    John 18:20: Jesus answered him, "I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues, and in the Temple, where the Jews always meet. I said nothing in secret.
    John 18:21: Why do you ask Me? Ask those who have heard Me what I said to them. Behold, these know the things which I said."

    Also, can you BELIEVE that the Governing Body DARES to say that the following Scripture applies to themselves:

    Revelation 14:4: These (the 144,000) are those who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are those who follow the Lamb (Jesus Christ) wherever he goes. These were redeemed by Jesus from among men, the first fruits to God and to the Lamb.
    Revelation 14:5: In their mouth was found no lie, for they are blameless.

    Their Hypocrisy, Lies, Deception, Wickedness, Iniquity, Couching, and all of the other things I could say about them is hard to believe.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped
    Now, below are Quotes showing that what the Society says about HONESTY -- Compare these Quotes to the ones above about "Theocratic Warfare"!

    *** Qualified to be Ministers Book (1955), Page 191 ***

    "On all occasions we should tell the truth. This does not mean that we should be blunt or try to tell people everything we know at one time. But it means we should be frank, honest and very clear in our remarks and that we should attempt to make these remarks helpful. Often a statement of truth needs to be accompanied by an explanation that will avoid the wrong conclusions the hearer might otherwise reach."

    Page 199:

    "Be very careful to be accurate in all statements you make. Use evidence honestly. In quotations, do not twist the meaning of a writer or speaker or use only partial quotations to give a different thought than the person intended. Also if you use statistics, use them properly. Statistics can often be used to give a distorted picture."

    *** The Watchtower February 1st 1956 Issue, Pages 88-89 Cautious as Serpents Among Wolves ***

    45. We dare not lie against God's Word, adding to it or taking away from it, reading into it what it does not say and denying, passing over or explaining away what it does truthfully say. "Every word of God is tried: . . . Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." (Prov. 30:5, 6, AS) We may not tell untruths in his name, for that puts God in the light of a liar. "Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar." (Rom. 3:4, NW) In Jeremiah's day the false prophets prophesied lies in Jehovah's name and lied against his purpose, foretelling in his name what he had not foretold. Therefore Jehovah was against them. He executed judgment against them at Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C. (Jer. 23:25; 27:15) Religious liars like them today cannot escape a like judgment but will meet a like end at Armageddon.

    46. Never swear falsely in Jehovah's name. Jehovah declares that at his temple he will be a "swift witness against . . . the false swearers." (Mal. 3:5, AS) Never take an oath in his name and then tell lies as a sworn witness. Rahab of Jericho was under no oath in Jehovah's name to tell the facts to the king's officers and hence was not a false swearer or a false witness. "A faithful witness will not lie; but a false witness uttereth lies." (Prov. 14:5, AS) A faithful witness does not love a false oath. So he tells the truth as he swore to do. What he does speak will be the truth. If he speaks at all he will tell the truth. To the extent that he chooses to talk he will state the truth. If for conscientious reasons he refuses to tell everything he will be willing to suffer the consequences if he be judged deserving of a penalty. He refuses to tell everything, not to escape punishment, but facing punishment for conscientious reasons. Even Jesus kept silent before Pilate, refusing to answer though knowing Pilate's power.-John 19:8-11.

    *** The Watchtower September 1st 1968 Issue, Page 538 ***

    "To be honest means, among other things, to be truthful in one's speech. In the strongest of terms the Bible condemns the practice of lying. Thus Satan the Devil is shown to be the original liar. (John 8:44) How seriously God views lying can be seen from what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. They were immediately stricken dead by God's power because they lied to the apostle Peter, a member of the Christian congregation's governing body. Their punishment would seem to indicate that Jehovah views especially seriously any lying or misrepresentation practiced toward those having the right to know the facts because of having positions of oversight in the Christian congregation, such as the traveling representatives of the governing body today. -- Acts 5:1-11.

    "One may think that what Ananias and Sapphira did was not such a bad thing. They did not cause any loss to come to others by reason of their lying; it was not as if they had covered up a theft with lies. Neither had they deprived others of what was due them. What was their sin, their fault? Dishonesty! Hypocrisy!"

    Page 540:

    "Christians have the obligation also to be honest in all of their dealings with outsiders, those outside the Christian congregation and the family circle."

    *** Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook (1971), Page 110 ***

    "Jehovah's witnesses are an organization of truth. We should want to speak the truth and be absolutely accurate in every detail at all times. This should be so not only as regards doctrine but also in our quotations, what we say about others or how we represent them, also in matters involving scientific data or news events.

    "Wrong statements delivered to an audience may be repeated and the error magnified. Inaccuracies that are recognized by an audience raise questions as to the authority of the speaker on other points, perhaps even calling into question the truth of the message itself."

    *** The Watchtower January 15th 1974 Issue, Page 35 ***

    Can You Be True to God, Yet Hide the Facts?

    WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?

    What happens when misconduct and immorality are allowed to go unexposed and uncondemned? Is this not like covering over an infection without any effort to cure it and keep it from spreading?

    When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?

    *** The Watchtower June 1st 1997 Issue ***

    The Dangers of Religious Secrecy

    Certainly no one would want to support a secret organization religious or nonreligious that misuses his trust and causes him to pursue goals with which he does not agree. What can people do, though, to avoid falling into the trap of involvement with secret societies of a questionable nature?

    Obviously, anyone considering membership in a secret society would be wise to ascertain its real objectives. Pressure from friends or acquaintances should be guarded against, and decisions ought to be based not on emotion but on facts. Remember, it is likely the individual himselfnot otherswho will be called upon to suffer any possible consequences.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are happy to reveal who they are and what they are doing. Following Bible principles is the surest method of steering clear of dangerous groups whose motives are less than honorable. (Isaiah 30:21) This involves maintaining political neutrality, showing love to others, even to enemies, avoiding "the works of the flesh," and cultivating the fruitage of God's spirit. Above all, true Christians must be no part of the world, even as Jesus was no part, and this course precludes participating in worldly secret societies.Galatians 5:19-23; John 17:14, 16; 18:36; Romans 12:17-21; James 4:4.

    Jehovah's Witnesses are earnest students of the Bible who take their faith seriously and try openly to live accordingly. Worldwide, they are well-known as a religious group that 'seeks peace and pursues it.' (1 Peter 3:11) Their book Jehovah's WitnessesProclaimers of God's Kingdom correctly notes: "Jehovah's Witnesses are in no sense a secret society. Their Bible-based beliefs are fully explained in publications that are available to anyone. Additionally, they put forth special effort to invite the public to attend meetings to see and hear for themselves what takes place."

    True religion in no way practices secretiveness. Worshipers of the true God have been instructed not to hide their identity or to obscure their purpose as Jehovah's Witnesses. The early disciples of Jesus filled Jerusalem with their teaching. They were out in the open as to their beliefs and activity. The same is true of Jehovah's Witnesses today. Understandably, when dictatorial regimes wrongfully restrict freedom of worship, Christians must cautiously and courageously carry on their activity, obeying "God as ruler rather than men," a situation that is forced upon them because of their courageous public witness.Acts 5:27-29; 8:1; 12:1-14; Matthew 10:16, 26, 27.

    If it ever crossed your mind that Jehovah's Witnesses might be a secret cult or sect, that was likely because you knew too little about them. That must have been the situation with many in the first century.

    Acts chapter 28 tells us of a meeting that the apostle Paul had in Rome with "the principal men of the Jews." They said to him: "We think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against." (Acts 28:16-22) In response, Paul "explained the matter to them by bearing thorough witness concerning the kingdom of God," and "some began to believe." (Acts 28:23, 24) It certainly was to their lasting benefit to get the actual facts concerning true Christianity.

    Dedicated as they are to the open and public service of God, Jehovah's Witnesses will be happy to reveal the plain facts of their activity and beliefs to ANYONE who cares to know the facts. Why not investigate for yourself, thus being in position to be properly informed as to their faith?

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 4 September 2002 22:39:53

  • blondie
    blondie

    Francois, here is how the WTS interprets some of Jesus words as a form of lying.

    Insight Volume 2 page 245 Lie ***


    While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open." (Mt 7:6) That is why Jesus on certain occasions refrained from giving full information or direct answers to certain questions when doing so could have brought unnecessary harm. (Mt 15:1-6; 21:23-27; Joh 7:3-10) Evidently the course of Abraham, Isaac, Rahab, and Elisha in misdirecting or in withholding full facts from nonworshipers of Jehovah must be viewed in the same light.Ge 12:10-19; chap 20; 26:1-10; Jos 2:1-6; Jas 2:25; 2Ki 6:11-23.
  • minimus
    minimus

    When I was a kid, I never understood this lying, theocratic stratergy thought. It's great though! It gives you a license to pretty much decieve or outright lie to anybody you want, including parents, elders, the police.....works for me.

  • ItsJustlittleoldme
    ItsJustlittleoldme
    When I was a kid, I never understood this lying, theocratic stratergy thought. It's great though! It gives you a license to pretty much decieve or outright lie to anybody you want, including parents, elders, the police.....works for me.

    Yeah, but you can only do it to protect Jehovah's good name :-)

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Avengers said:

    !! Jehovah is Satan !!

    I agree that the Watchtower Society has turned Jehovah into Satan.

    However, the TRUE JEHOVAH (YAHWEH) in the Bible is LOVE!

    !! THE TRUE JEHOVAH IS JESUS CHRIST !!

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 22 September 2002 2:46:1

  • DJ
    DJ

    AMEN!!!!

  • UnDisfellowshipped
  • blondie
    blondie

    Translation: A lie is not a lie unless you get caught lying.

    Translation: There is no God or if there is he doesn't see what we are doing.

    This shows to me that JWs as a group believe this:

    *** Rbi8 Ezekiel 8:12 ***


    12 And he proceeded to say to me: "Have you seen, O son of man, what the elderly ones of the house of Israel are doing in the darkness, each one in the inner rooms of his showpiece? For they are saying, Jehovah is not seeing us. Jehovah has left the land."

    *** Rbi8 Isaiah 29:15 ***


    15 Woe to those who are going very deep in concealing counsel from Jehovah himself, and whose deeds have occurred in a dark place, while they say: "Who is seeing us, and who is knowing of us?"

    *** Rbi8 Ezekiel 9:9 ***


    9 So he said to me: "The error of the house of Israel and Judah is very, very great, and the land is filled with bloodshed and the city is full of crookedness; for they have said, Jehovah has left the land, and Jehovah is not seeing.

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