Its not that its a dumb question but all this stuff has so little relevance, IMO. Jerusalem can fall when you like...and you add up all the multiples of numbers and stuff...it still doesn't mean anything!!!
ISP
A dumb question?
by link 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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aChristian
ISP,
You wrote: ... you add up all the multiples of numbers and stuff...it still doesn't mean anything!!!
The point, in case you missed it, is an important one. The JWs' claim that Christ returned in the year 1914, and then after a 3 and 1/2 year inspection period appointed the leaders of the Watchtower Society over all His belongings, cannot possibly be a correct one. Why not? Because the unique JW date for the fall of Jerusalem, 607 BCE, which JWs count forward 2,520 years from to arrive at their 1914 date, was arrived at by using a method which is in conflict with the clear words of scripture. Namely the words of Jer. 25:12 in which Jeremiah quotes God as having said, "When the seventy years are completed I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation." As all honest JWs must acknowlege, Babylon was punished when it was overthrown by Cyrus the Great. JWs, along with everyone else accept the fact that that event took place in 539 BCE. That means the "70 years" which God spoke of to Jeremiah could not have run beyond the year 539 BCE. However, the Watchtower Society's 607 BCE date, which they base their 1914 date upon along with their own claims for divinely granted spiritual authority, was arrived at by counting Jeremiah's "70 years" backwards in time from the date 537 BCE, not from 539 BCE. So then, the JW date of 607 BCE for the fall of Jerusalem must be in error. And so must their date of 1914 for the return of Christ.
Another point I think is worth making to those who doubt that the Bible is the inspired word of God is that history books confirm, true to the words the prophet Jeremiah, that Babylon did indeed hold the position of the supreme political and military power in the ancient Near East for "70 years." History books tell us that Babylon replaced Assyria as the power to be reckoned with in that area of the world in the year 609 BCE and that Babylon was overthrown by Cyrus the Great of Persia in 539 BCE.
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link
Thanks for your responses everyone. I can' t argue with any of it.
I do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God but I do not believe that by allocating numbers to historical events then juggling them about you can come up with somthing and call it the fulfillment of scriptural prophesy. It is comforting to know however, that history supports the Biblical record.
Unfortunately I am not in a position to take a hard line with my family on these matters, I stand to lose too much.
I have tried putting this and similar questions to them about 1914, 1919 etc but they always resort to the same ultimate response. "How else could we have foretold the second comming of Jesus and the start of the First World War before the actual events?" What a loaded statemet!
They won't believe this, but firstly they never attached 1914 to the Second Comming before the event and secondly they never foretold the the start of WW1. Ask them for proof of either of these two statements and the response you get is "you don't have enough faith".
There are just so many issues that they do not want to even look at, let alone want to explain.
link
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onacruse
aChristian: My sincere thanks for your research on this question. You bring up some points that I had not considered. I intended my initial post to reflect the WTS interpretation of this verse. I do not share either that interpretation, their extended application of that chronology, or their "spiritualization" of essentially historical passages.
In this respect, I agree with ISP, that such efforts are irrelevant. In fact, at my last Judicial Committee, as I defended my opposition to WTS teachings about 1914, one of the elders asked: "Then why does God have so much prophecy about the time of the end?" I replied "So that, after it is all said and done, we can look back and see that He was right." Mark me, I believe that prophecy has more importance than that, but eschatological anticipation based primarily on such prophecy has been, in each and every case for the last 2,000 years, a sorry disappointment, and, imho, detrimental to true Christian faith. The twisted WTS version of prophetic interpretation is one of the worst of all in this respect.
link, I wish you the best in your endeavor, and look forward to more of your questions! Very thought provoking.
Craig
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garybuss
All end timers have had their *revelation* and when that failed they have all claimed to be or have a *channel* in order to continue with some credibility. They were all prophets who claimed to be merely interpreters of prophecy when their predictions failed.
It looks to me like William Miller was the last honest end timer. He quit setting dates and did not become a channel after his disappointment. It's too bad his followers could not follow his example.
gb