First of all, I want to sincerely Thank all of you for Posting your Comments!
I would like to clarify a few things:
My only goal and purpose in studying the Bible is to arrive at the TRUTH and to have a closer relationship with God and to do His Will.
I try to keep a very open mind about things.
I do not believe that this Thread was a "waste of time", because, apparently, there are several people who believe that Jesus used the "I AM" statement as a Name for Himself, and there are several people who think He was just saying that He existed before Abraham.
So, this Thread can be used as a sort of "Resource Page" for everyone who has questions about the "I AM" statements.
Also, I do not believe that any study of the Bible is a "waste of time".
JosephMalik, you have made very good comments, and it does appear that Jesus was simply stating that He existed before Abraham in John 8:58.
You will also notice, that in the Links I posted, there were some Websites that were saying that "I am" meant that He was not using it as a Name.
I will now give some of my own personal beliefs, ideas, and opinions on some of your Comments:
Calling Jesus our God is not a problem. This term is not a name and can be used for anyone in authority, like a ruler or King. That is something that Trinitarians do NOT want you to know. They keep saying that this makes two Gods when the context determines what is said or meant. Context is something not grasped by many as it is a quality in the text that must be discerned.
You are definitely correct, "God" is a Title, which can be used for Rulers. However, according to the Scriptures there is only ONE ALMIGHTY GOD, correct? I believe that Jesus Christ is called the ALMIGHTY GOD in the Scriptures:
(World English Bible)
Jeremiah 10:10: But Yahweh is the True God; He is the Living God, and an Everlasting King: at His wrath the Earth trembles, and the nations are not able to abide His indignation.
Jeremiah 10:11: Thus shall you say to them, The gods that have not made the Heavens and the Earth, these shall perish from the Earth, and from under the Heavens.
Jeremiah 10:12: He has made the Earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, and by His understanding has He stretched out the Heavens:
Jeremiah 10:13: when he utters his voice, there is a tumult of waters in the Heavens, and He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the Earth; He makes lightnings for the rain, and brings forth the wind out of His treasuries.
Isaiah 44:24: Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb: I am Yahweh, who makes all things; who stretches forth the Heavens ALONE; who spreads abroad the Earth (who is with Me?);
Hebrews 1:10: (The Father speaking to the Son) And, "You, Lord, in the beginning, laid the foundation of the Earth. The Heavens are the works of YOUR HANDS.
Hebrews 1:11: They will perish, but You continue. They all will grow old like a garment does.
Hebrews 1:12: As a mantle You will roll them up, And they will be changed; But You are the Same. Your years will not fail."
Colossians 1:15: (Jesus Christ) who is the Image of the Invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation.
Colossians 1:16: For BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, in the Heavens and on the Earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED THROUGH HIM, AND FOR HIM.
Colossians 1:17: He is before all things, and in Him all things are held together.
Colossians 1:18: He is the Head of the Body, the Assembly, who is the Beginning, the Firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence.
Colossians 1:19: For all the Fullness was pleased to dwell in Him;
Colossians 2:9: For in Him all the Fullness of the Godhead (or Deity) dwells Bodily,
Colossians 2:10: and in Him you are made full, who is the Head of all principality and power;
Philippians 2:5: Have this in your mind, which was also in Christ Jesus,
Philippians 2:6: who, existing in the Form of God, didn't consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Philippians 2:7: but emptied Himself, taking the Form of a Servant, being made in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:8: And being found in Human Form, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death, yes, the death of the Cross.
Philippians 2:9: Therefore God also highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the Name which is ABOVE EVERY NAME;
Philippians 2:10: that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in Heaven, those on Earth, and those under the Earth,
Philippians 2:11: and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father.
John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2: The Same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3: All things were made through Him. Without Him was not anything made that has been made.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, and the world didn't recognize him.
I will be Posting a New Thread on this subject soon.
And the deity of Christ does not mean the Trinity of Christ. The word deity simply does not mean what they say it does. Will someone please show us all the scriptural definition of Deity. Show the verses and all. Show why Deity means trinity? I have tried to get such a definition for years now and still no one has shown me one. Trinitarian use of Deity is a LIE pure and simple.
Here is a Verse that shows Jesus Christ's Deity, or "Godhead":
Colossians 2:9: For in Him all the Fullness of the Godhead (or Deity) dwells Bodily
Here is the Biblical Definition of the word "Godhead", according to some different sources:
Thayer's Greek Definitions:
1a) the state of being God, Godhead
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayers/Strongs Number: from G2316 (theos)
Citing in TDNT: 3:119, 322
Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries:
From G2316; divinity (abstractly): - godhead.
Here is the Webster Dictionary's Definition of "Deity":
1-A: The rank or essential nature of a god : DIVINITY
1-B: Capitalized: GOD (1st Definition Listed under "God"), SUPREME BEING
2: A god or goddess 3: One exalted or revered as supremely good or powerful
Here is the Webster Dictionary's Definition of "God":
1: Capitalized: The supreme or ultimate reality: as A): the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe B): Christian Science: the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit: infinite Mind
2: A being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3: A person or thing of supreme value
4: A powerful ruler
Here is the Webster Dictionary's Definition of "Godhead":
1: Divine nature or essence: DIVINITY
2: Capitalized A): GOD (1st Definition Listed under "God") B): The nature of God especially as existing in three persons used with the
Jesus Christ's Deity does NOT prove that there is a Trinity, it proves that the Father and the Son are God (the Son being in subjection to the Father, and I believe that is why Jesus said the Father was greater than He was, because the Father's Position, not His Nature - I read somewhere that the word "greater" means higher in position, but the word "better" means higher in nature, I don't know if that is correct though).
However, it is when you consider the Holy Spirit that you arrive at the Trinity. I am curious, what do you believe about the Holy Spirit?
The present dual nature of the Christ is something no one wants to understand and Trinitarians attempt to deny but it is there in scripture. This dual nature will be maintained at least until the final test is completed. The earthly Kingdom and Rule by Christ is something that the WT denies but it is there in scripture for all to read. Such battles rage on and on because it is not reason but the view of organizations that rule the Faith at present.
Could you please explain further about the dual nature of Christ, I'm not sure I understood your comments about it, and also please explain your comments on the Earthly Kingdom.
Thanks again everyone for Posting!
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 3 September 2002 1:19:42