So if you don't mind I'll re-post in all tricoloured grandeur
Please do it ;) I'm not here to discuss boring political things ;)
How to Block an Interrogation by J.W's
by The Searcher 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
coalize
-
oppostate
Okay, here it goes again in it's original full color splendor!
Those loyalty questions are a form of violence. There is NO harmless loyalty question you can throw at someone. They are darts full of poison.
They connote that if you disagree with WT policy you will suffer, be punished with marking or DF'ing, be distanced from your family and friends, ending up emotionally and mentally maltreated by Gobbering Body supporters to your detriment.
The only response to your advantage is to hit back hard:
Something like: "I am sorely disappointed and quite disgusted you would throw those questions at me. Who are you the Spanish Inquisition? I'm feeling harassed when you dare ask me that. You obviously aren't interested in my nor anyone else's well-being. (Now put fists to waist, Superman style, and assert vigorously and with frowning eyebrows.)
"If you EVER dare harass me with anything like that again I'm seeking a restraint order for continued harASSment!" (Raise your voice and accentuate the second syllable not the first).
Then add a parting rhetorical question: "How DARE you!?!" And walk away from them.
Don't pause while you tell them any of this, don't give them a chance to interrupt through your assertion. Talk over them if you have to. You are incensed because of their verbal violence and you refuse to be victimized.
If this mind controlled automaton dares sic the elders on you, then you simply rinse and repeat the process to wash them off your hair--or if you will, contemplate another, more emphatic illustration--do a shot of this spiritual listerine response to combat their septic mindset, swish and flush them out with a good tongue lashing then spit out your not so subtle protestation at them full force.
Not a very Christian response? Consider it the anti-loyalty-question equivalent of throwing the filthy-lucre-loving money changers out of the Temple.
These people are trying to do you harm. They're like a bear trap's teeth waiting to spring. Once you give the inquisitionist bear trap a good baseball bat tongue lashing, they'll snap themselves into impotent silence.
Hit them where it spiritually counts, with a swift legal knee to their cultish gonads.
-
Oubliette
Searcher, the problem which you miss is that these questions are not equivalent.
- "Don't you believe that this is God's spirit-directed organization?"
- "Do you believe everything which the faithful slave says?"
-
The second is about doctrinal inerrancy and the first is about loyalty.
A JW can answer "no" to the second question without consequence, but not the first. -
coalize
A JW can answer "no" to the second question without consequence, but not the first.
Without consequence? I'm not sure!
-
zeb
"Do you believe.. etc"
That would depend on what time frame you are referring to because what I was baptized with no longer applies.
-
Oubliette
coalize: Without consequence? I'm not sure!
What possible consequence could there be for answer "no" to that question?
Only an idiot would say "yes" to it. They've changed their teachings so many times no one can keep track of all of the doctrinal changes, and quite of few have tried.
-
coalize
Only an idiot would say "yes" to it
Exactly! That's why for the normal joe it will have consequences! :)
-
tim3l0rd
I think a good catch 22 question to come back with would be something like this: "If someone came to the understanding that the generation could not be a literal 80 years prior to it being published by the faithful and discreet slave, would that person be holding an apostate view until the faithful slave published the change in understanding?" -
Nicholaus Kopernicus
THIS IS A SUBJECT WHICH HAS BEEN OF CONCERN TO ME FOR SOME TIME. I FOUND THE FOLLOWING TO BE VERY HELPFUL AND PUBLISHED BY MELETI VIVLON IN HIS BLOG - "BEROEAN PICKETS" IN OCTOBER 2014
How Jesus Deal with Loaded Questions
A loaded question is not asked to gain greater understanding and wisdom, but rather to ensnare a victim.
Since we are called to be “sharers in the sufferings of the Christ”, we can learn from his example in dealing with the wolves that used such questions to trap him. First, we need to adopt his mental attitude. Jesus did not allow these opposers to make him feel defensive, as if he were the one in the wrong, the one needing to justify his actions. Like him, we should be “innocent as doves”. An innocent person is not aware of any wrongdoing. He cannot be made to feel guilty because he is innocent. Therefore, there is no reason for him to act defensively. He will not play into the hands of opposers by giving a direct answer to their loaded questions. That is where being as “cautious as serpents” comes in.
Here is but one example for our consideration and instruction.
“Now after he went into the temple, the chief priests and the older men of the people came up to him while he was teaching and said: “By what authority do you do these things? And who gave you this authority?”” (Mt 21:23 NWT)
They believed Jesus was acting presumptuously because they had been appointed by God to rule the nation, so by what authority did this upstart presume to take their place?
Jesus answered with a question.
“I, also, will ask YOU one thing. If YOU tell it to me, I also will tell YOU by what authority I do these things: 25 The baptism by John, from what source was it? From heaven or from men?” (Mt 21:24, 25 NWT)
This question put them in a difficult situation. If they said from heaven, they could not deny Jesus’ authority also came from heaven since his works were greater than John’s. Yet, if they said “from men”, they had the crowd to worry about for they all held John to be a prophet. So they chose to be nonresponsive by answering, “We do not know.”
To which Jesus replied, “Neither am I telling YOU by what authority I do these things.” (Mt. 21:25-27 NWT)
They believed their position of authority granted them the right to ask probing questions of Jesus. It did not. He refused to answer.
Applying the Lesson Jesus Taught
How should you respond if two elders were to pull you aside to ask you a loaded questions like:
- “Do you believe Jehovah is using the Governing Body to direct his people?”
or - “Do you accept that the Governing Body is the Faithful Slave?”
or - “Do you think you know more than the Governing Body?”
These questions are not asked because the elders are seeking enlightenment. They are loaded and as such are much like a grenade with the pin pulled out. You can fall on it, or you can toss it back to them by asking something like, “Why are you asking me this?”
Perhaps they’ve heard something. Perhaps someone has gossiped about you. Based on the principle of 1 Timothy 5:19,[i] they need two or more witnesses. If they have only hearsay and no witnesses, then they are wrong to even question you. Point out to them that they are breaking a direct command of God’s word. If they persist in asking, you can respond that it would be wrong to enable them in a course of sin by answering questions they have been told by God not to ask, and again refer to 1 Timothy 5:19.
They will likely counter that they just wanted to get your side of the story, or hear your opinion before proceeding. Do not be seduced into giving it. Instead, tell them that your opinion is that they need to follow the direction of the Bible as found at 1 Timothy 5:19. They may very well get upset with you for continuing to go back to that well, but what of it? That means they are getting upset with direction from God.
Avoid Foolish and Ignorant Questionings
We cannot plan a response for every potential question. There are just too many possibilities. What we can do is train ourselves to follow a principle. We can never go wrong by obeying a command of our Lord. The Bible says to avoid “foolish and ignorant questionings, knowing they produce fights”, and promoting the idea that the Governing Body speaks for God is both foolish and ignorant. (2 Tim. 2:23) So if they ask us a loaded question, we do not argue, but ask them for justification.
To provide an example:
Elder: “Do you believe the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave?”
You: “Do you?”
Elder: “Of course, but I want to know what you think?”
You: “Why do you believe they are the faithful slave?”
Elder: “So you’re saying you don’t believe it?”
You: “Please don’t put words in my mouth. Why do you believe that the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave?”
Elder: “You know as well as I do?”
You: “Why do you deflect my question? Never mind, this discussion is becoming unpleasant and I think we should put an end to it.”
At this point, you stand up and start to leave.
The Abuse of Authority
You may fear that by not answering their questions, they will just go ahead and disfellowship you anyway. That is always a possibility, though they need to provide justification for it or they will look very foolish when the appeal committee reviews the case, since you will have given them no evidence on which to base their decision. Nevertheless, they can still abuse their authority and do as they wish. The only sure way to avoid disfellowshipping is to compromise your integrity and admit that the unscriptural teachings you have a problem with are really true after all. Bending the knee in submission is what these men are really seeking from you.
18th Century Scholar Bishop Benjamin Hoadley said:
“Authority is the greatest and most irreconcilable enemy to truth and argument that this world ever furnished. All the sophistry–all the color of plausibility–the artifice and cunning of the subtlest disputer in the world may be laid open and turned to the advantage of that very truth which they are designed to hide; but against authority there is no defence.”Fortunately, the ultimate authority lies with Jehovah and those who abuse their authority will one day answer to God for it.
In the meantime, we must not give way to fear.
Silence is Golden
What if the matter escalates? What if a friend betrays you by revealing a confidential discussion. What if the elders imitate the Jewish leaders who arrested Jesus and take you into a secret meeting. Like Jesus, you may find yourself all alone. No one will be allowed to witness the proceedings even if you request it. No friends or family will be allowed to accompany you for support. You will be badgered with questions. Often, hearsay testimony will be taken as evidence. This is a common circumstance and is eerily like what our Lord experienced on his last night.
The Jewish leaders condemned Jesus for blasphemy, though no man has ever been less guilty of that charge. Their modern day counterparts will try to charge you with apostasy. This will be a travesty of law, of course, but they need something to hang their legal hat on.
In such a situation, we should not make their lives easier.
In the same situation, Jesus refused to answer their questions. He gave them nothing. He was following his own counsel.
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip YOU open.” (Mt 7:6 NWT)
It may seem shocking and even insulting to suggest that this scripture could apply to a committee hearing within the congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but the results of many such encounters between elders and truth-seeking Christians demonstrates this to be an accurate application of these words. He surely had in mind the Pharisees and Sadducees when he gave his disciples this warning. Remember that members of each of those groups were Jews, and therefore fellow servants of Jehovah God.
If we throw our pearls of wisdom before such men, they will not prize them, they will trample upon them, then turn on us. We hear accounts of Christians who try to reason from the Scriptures with a judicial committee, but the committee members will not even open the Bible to follow the reasoning. Jesus gave up his right to silence only at the very end, and this only so that the scripture might be fulfilled, for he had to die for the salvation of mankind. Truly, he was humiliated and justice was taken away from him. (Ac 8:33 NWT)
However, our situation differs somewhat from his. Our continued silence may be our only defense. If they have evidence, let them present it. If not, let us not give it to them on a silver platter. They have twisted God’s law so that disagreement with a teaching of men constitutes apostasy against God. Let this perversion of divine law be on their head.
It may well go against our nature to sit silently while being interrogated and falsely accused; to let the silence reach uncomfortable levels. Nevertheless, we must. Eventually, they will fill the silence and in doing so reveal their true motivation and heart condition. We must remain obedient to our Lord who told us not to throw pearls before swine. “Listen, obey and be blessed.” In these cases, silence is golden. You may reason that they cannot disfellowship a man for apostasy if he speaks the truth, but to men like this, apostasy means contradicting the Governing Body. Remember, these are men who have chosen to ignore plainly stated direction from God’s word and who have chosen to obey men over God. They are like the first century Sanhedrin who acknowledged that a notable sign had occurred through the apostles, but ignored its implications and chose to persecute the children of God instead. (Ac 4:16, 17)
Beware of Disassociation
The elders fear someone who can use the Bible to overturn our false teachings. They view such an individual as a corrupting influence and a threat to their authority. Even if the individuals are not actively associating with the congregation, they are still seen as a threat. So they may drop by “to encourage” and during the discussion ask innocently whether you wish to continue to associate with the congregation. If you say no, you give them the authority to read out a letter of disassociation in the Kingdom hall. This is disfellowshipping by another name.
Years back we risked serious legal repercussions for disfellowshipping individuals who joined the military or voted. So we came up with a slight-of-hand solution we called “disassociation”. Our answer if asked was that we don’t threaten people from exercising their legal right to vote or defend their country by any punitive action such as disfellowshipping. However, if they choose to leave on their own, that is their decision. They have disassociated themselves by their actions, but they were not—absolutely not—disfellowshipped. Of course, we all knew (“nudge, nudge, wink, wink”) that disassociation was exactly the same thing as disfellowshipping.
In the 1980s we began to use the unscriptural designation “disassociated” as a weapon against sincere Christians who were recognizing that God’s word was being misapplied and twisted. There have been cases where individuals wishing to quietly fade away but not lose all contact with family members have moved to another city, not giving their forwarding address to the congregation. These ones have nevertheless been tracked down, visited by the local elders and asked the loaded question, “Do you still wish to associate with the congregation?” By answering no, a letter could then be read out to all congregation members branding them with the official status of “disassociated” and thus they could be treated exactly as disfellowshipped ones.
- “Do you believe Jehovah is using the Governing Body to direct his people?”
-
blondie
Avoid being cornered and if unavoidable don't be afraid to quietly leave even if it seems rude. Don't invite them into your home (dropping by, need to use the restroom, your jw spouse asked us to drop by--obviously to see the spouse since they informed the spouse but not you).
Practice changing the topic to something non-religious, sports. Then leave the area.
I know one person who asked the drop by elder if he was faithful to his wife. The elder said he was offended by that personal question. That person, said "Exactly, then you know how I feel about your question" and then quietly walked away.