DID SATAN REALLY LIE?

by Mary 33 Replies latest jw friends

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  Sentinel

  Hi Mary,

  I love your expressions in this thread. Very good thinking process going on there. I also had the very same questions years ago and brought them up to an elder. I was told that if I continued to ask such "apostate" questions, I would have to be disciplined.

  Anyways, here goes. I believe that the "fruit" was not bad in itself, but was made of matter which would genetically alter Adam and Eve--which in fact it did. It may have been located in that peticular area of their home for another purpose altogether, but the "idea" was placed before Eve, and she went with it. When Adam ate, then they both immediately began to "change", and so we inherited the genetic "flaw". That genetic flaw, being the ability to have knowledge about all things, about the good and the bad and to be able to have a conscience instead of being robots. Knowledge comes at a cost, but it is worth it I think. A race of perfect robots is not exactly my idea of being free.

  I don't believe that "Satan" was bad. He told the truth. He knew the truth. He was friends with the creators. He lived in their realm. He knew the deal. But, the creators didn't plan on things getting out of hand like that. And also, I don't necessarily believe word for word everything written down in the bible. I believe most of it is put together by men in position of power, who wanted to control the masses. I mean, to blame EVERYTHING on the female is in itself a lie. It puts the female immediately into a bad position, where men could trample upon her all through history. It was never meant to be that way.

  Just my two cents worth.

  Sentinel
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  Yadirf

  Derek,

  The serpent was innocent of any wrongdoing, a mere tool used by Satan in order to deceive Eve, so what reason would God have to curse this helpless little creature

  That's not what it says in the Bible, Yadirf. Can you show me a scripture that states - or even implies - that the serpent was a tool of Satan? Or are you "going beyond what is written"?

  We do know that ordinarily serpents (snakes) do not possess the ability to speak, don't we Derek? But yet in this one particular instance a serpent DID speak, to Eve. Obviously then SOMEONE must of had the ability to cause the serpent to speak. Who might that of been? The scripture at Revelation 12:9 refers to Satan as "the original serpent." But we know that Satan was never a serpent, literally, because he is, and always has been, an angel. So, that leaves only one explanation as to why Satan is called the original serpent, which of course is: the words out of the mouth of the actual serpent were his own words. Yes it was he who made the serpent to speak. So the serpent WAS a tool of Satan's, in that he used it to convey his thoughts to Eve in order to tempt her into disobeying God.

  Friday

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  Big Tex

  Is it really so . . .
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  funkyderek

  Yadirf, I didn't ask for proof that the devil was sometimes called a serpent in the Bible. I asked for proof that the serpent mentioned in Genesis 3 was the devil, or a tool of the devil.
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  FiveShadows

  what if it really wasn't a fruit but was a mistranslation...and the REAL tree was made of weed? ..........just a thought~FS
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  willy_think

  Just a bit of trivia: the Hebrew word translated in Gen. 3 as "serpent" is also translated, leviathan, sea monster, dragon and titan. I believe thinking of the "serpent" as a small snake may be a big mistake.
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  Yadirf

  Derek,

  Yadirf, I didn't ask for proof that the devil was sometimes called a serpent in the Bible. I asked for proof that the serpent mentioned in Genesis 3 was the devil, or a tool of the devil.

  For what other reason do you suppose that Satan at the two verses of Revelation 12:9 and 20:2 is referred to as the original serpent (as the NWT puts it, or by way of comparison the NIV and RSV translate the word as ancient serpent)? As I mentioned previously, SOMEONE had to cause that original

  / ancient serpent to speak to Eve, since such a creature itself doesn't naturally possess that ability. It's really no mystery at all to sincere students of the Bible--persons who are not ignorant of Satan's ways--just exactly WHO that "someone" is that was behind the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Why my goodness, even Christendom's adherents have got that one figured out! Take for example the scripture located at 2 Corinthians 11:3, where according to Christendom's Living Bible translation it says: "But I am frightened, fearing that in some way you will be led away from your pure and simple devotion to our Lord, just as Eve was deceived by Satan in the Garden of Eden."

  Friday

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  Edited by - Yadirf on 27 August 2002 15:58:7
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  Yadirf

  Willy_think,

  I believe thinking of the "serpent" as a small snake may be a big mistake.

  I'm sure it will be absolutely okay with everybody here if you think of the "serpent" as a BIG snake, Willy_think. So, bye doggies, you just go right ahead and think that-a-way, Willy_think.

  Friday

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  mevirginia

  I think it was a sea monster, in a tree.
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  funkyderek

  Yadirf,

  It's really no mystery at all to sincere students of the Bible--persons who are not ignorant of Satan's ways--just exactly WHO that "someone" is that was behind the serpent in the Garden of Eden

  OK, fine, but it doesn't actually say so in the Bible. It may be implied, and you may think it's impossible to infer anything else, but it's not stated.

  Take for example the scripture located at 2 Corinthians 11:3, where according to Christendom's Living Bible translation it says: "But I am frightened, fearing that in some way you will be led away from your pure and simple devotion to our Lord, just as Eve was deceived by Satan in the Garden of Eden."

  That's exegesis, not translation.