A few bibical/religious questions

by Leander 11 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Leander

  I've had these questions on my mind for a while and I was just curious as to what some other people's thoughts might be.

  First off is the issue of the flood and Noah. In the bible account Noah was commisioned to preach to those around him about the coming flood. What's interesting about this account is that the people duing that time period were not familiar with the concept of rain. So one wonders if the people Noah spoke with may have thought he was a older man who was losing his edge. So that leads into my question:

  Was it fair to destroy people who had a valid reason for doubting Noah's warning?

  After the destruction of the earth's inhabitants during Noahs time God promised that he would never destroy the world again by flood and to symbolize this he used the rainbow. Is this actually suggesting that God made a mistake? Why would a being who is perfect in action need to make a promise that he would never do something again?

  Another question is in regard to what JW's refer to as the issue that God is allowing to play out. That issue is that God is allowing current world conditions to continue on to prove that only he has the right to rule over mankind. However there are some interesting questions that can be asked in regards to that issue.

  How is the issue that man can't rule himself being proved if Satan is being allowed to influence human affairs?

  In order to be fair in determining if man can make his own decisions apart from God should'nt he be given the same circumstances that Adam and Eve had?

  Finally the last question concerns the treatment and punishment of humans and spirit beings. All through-out the course of the bible we learned about humans who have suffered immediate punishment from God. In many of those situations the punishment was death. However no where in the bible was there any mention of a wicked or erring spirit being suffering the punishment of death. So that brings us to the question.

  Why are demons who have committed sins far worse than any human can hope to make allowed to continue living when humans have been killed instantly for lesser errors?

  Why will Satan and his demons be allowed to mislead people after the thousand year reign? (Revelations)

  These are some questions and concerns that I have had on mind for quite some time. It's easy to understand why so many people have a difficult time putting faith in the bible when there are so many issues and questions such as these that have no practical answers.
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  pomegranate

  >>In the bible account Noah was commisioned to preach to those around him about the coming flood.<<

  Show me where it says that in the Bible. Noah was NEVER commisioned to preach by God.

  >>What's interesting about this account is that the people duing that time period were not familiar with the concept of rain.<<

  Again, where does it say THAT in the Bible. It rained from the beginning of creation. Without rain PLANTS DON'T GROW. What do you think the seperation of the "waters above" were for in Genesis? RAIN.

  >>So one wonders if the people Noah spoke with may have thought he was a older man who was losing his edge. So that leads into my question:

  Was it fair to destroy people who had a valid reason for doubting Noah's warning?<<

  Noah never warned ANYONE. The only thing Noah did was condemn the world before the flood BY HIS ACTIONS OF BUILDING THE ARK. Him building was the ONLY work God commisioned him to do.

  >>After the destruction of the earth's inhabitants during Noahs time God promised that he would never destroy the world again by flood and to symbolize this he used the rainbow. Is this actually suggesting that God made a mistake? Why would a being who is perfect in action need to make a promise that he would never do something again?<<

  No, it's actually suggesting exactly what it says, that God would not destroy the earth with water again. Next time, he'll use fire. You have to remember, God the Father had a time table for God the Son to become a man. Satan was doing his thing to prevent it, God was doing His thing to make things happen at the correct time. Mankind was based around Christ, Christ was not based around mankind.

  >>Another question is in regard to what JW's refer to as the issue that God is allowing to play out. That issue is that God is allowing current world conditions to continue on to prove that only he has the right to rule over mankind. However there are some interesting questions that can be asked in regards to that issue.

  How is the issue that man can't rule himself being proved if Satan is being allowed to influence human affairs?<<

  The real issue has nothing to do with man as plainly seen in the Bible. The issue is between God and Satan with man inbetween.

  >>In order to be fair in determining if man can make his own decisions apart from God should'nt he be given the same circumstances that Adam and Eve had?<<

  NO CREATION of God has the right to make his own decisions in regards to what is Good and Bad, no creatures life is their own. God OWNS everyones life. God sets that standard for ALL creatures ever since EVIL was brought into existence by Satan. That's the deal. Satan says everyone has free will. God says there is NO WILL BUT MY WILL. So the game is played out to the end.

  >>Finally the last question concerns the treatment and punishment of humans and spirit beings. All through-out the course of the bible we learned about humans who have suffered immediate punishment from God. In many of those situations the punishment was death. However no where in the bible was there any mention of a wicked or erring spirit being suffering the punishment of death. So that brings us to the question.

  Why are demons who have committed sins far worse than any human can hope to make allowed to continue living when humans have been killed instantly for lesser errors?<<

  First MANKIND was created with the potential to die, and MANKIND was burdened with the first LAW.

  When ANGELS came into existence by God, there was NO SUCH THING AS BAD OR EVIL in creation. The concept was an UNKNOWN even to God. Which means ANGELS were never created initially with the potential to die. Why? Well, you tell me. Why would God bother creating LIFE with the potential to DIE? Because something he created could be BAD? Never may that happen. Angels were created to LIVE with the only potential TO LIVE. When Satan went bad OF HIS OWN FREE WILL, he wasn't breaking ANY LAW, because there WAS NO LAW. Satan and his demons is/was the reason FOR THE LAW in the Garden.
  
  When Satan brought evil into existence, God had to make LAW AFTER THE FACT. LAW is not made BEFORE evil exists, LAW is made AFTER evil exists.

  Example: Let's say there was NEVER EVER a murder. NONE. Would God make a LAW for murder if murder never happened? NO. After murder happened, then a LAW would be put in place at God's appointed time.

  Now think of Eden. God put a LAW of OBEDIENCE in place on Adam and Eve. Since God put a LAW of obedience in place, DISOBEDIENCE had to be ALREADY be in existence. It was. The father of disobediance named Satan.

  >>Why will Satan and his demons be allowed to mislead people after the thousand year reign? (Revelations)<<

  The Bible says so. But it surely will not be people that have already been at the butt end of his rampage. It will be NEW people.

  Edited by - pomegranate on 24 August 2002 23:5:44
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  gsx1138

  Well Leander, as far as the Noah thing. You should know that that story is actually from Babylonian mythology. It was a morality tale verbally passed down. Of course, the Hebrews were monotheistic so the part about the Goddess in the original story was taken out. It was tweaked just enough to fit in with their theology but also left giant holes. The Babylonian's never intended for the story to be taken literally.
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  minimus

  POM, Your points are right-on!
• 

  A Paduan

  Was it fair to destroy people who had a valid reason for doubting Noah's warning?

  No rain? Do people love if you threaten them? Thats simply how you exact a deal.

  Is this actually suggesting that God made a mistake? Why would a being who is perfect in action need to make a promise that he would never do something again?

  Sorry to see it happen in general. Ask someone whos killed in self-defense even though it may have been just.

  How is the issue that man can't rule himself being proved if Satan is being allowed to influence human affairs?

  Yes, exactly.

  In order to be fair in determining if man can make his own decisions apart from God should'nt he be given the same circumstances that Adam and Eve had?

  Which was? Are you thinking something like a personal test? Well, this is it, youre living it.

  Why are demons who have committed sins far worse than any human can hope to make allowed to continue living when humans have been killed instantly for lesser errors?

  Far worse than any human? Spirits are born of the eternal - dust becomes dust.

  Why will Satan and his demons be allowed to mislead people after the thousand year reign?

  Do you mean, "will we be tempted again a long time after we begin to reign with Christ over our own person - after He casts out the strongman?" If thats what you're referring to then Yeah, I reckon so, I believe this happens to people.

  As for 'millennial reign on earth' ideas - I don't think that way.

  paduan

  Edited by - a paduan on 25 August 2002 6:34:48
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  plmkrzy

  Was it fair to destroy people who had a valid reason for doubting Noah's warning?

  Paduan, it does seem like no matter what story one may read about doubt in the Bible, they all have the same thing in common with the first doubt of a warning that was given to the first man and woman.

  No matter what we read regarding what ever story, it will always boil down to where does one put their faith.

  And if one puts it in the wrong place it can be deadly.

  Life is not fair. For as long as far back as our history can be traced, it never has been a matter of "fair". Except in the case of Adam and Eve. Their story was more then fair. So blame them.
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  cellomould

  Hey Pomegranate (et al), I thought for a second you had come around to seeing the truth vs untruth in the bible:

  Noah was NEVER commisioned to preach by God.

  You are right about that. Genesis does not say that Noah was commissioned to preach. But, in the New Testament, that inference is clearly made:

  2 Peter 2
  
  4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, [1] putting them into gloomy dungeons [2] to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

  There you have it. The New Testament writers constantly reframed Old Testament events in terms of their own current beliefs. So it looks like either blatant contradiction or an evolution of belief.

  However you try to define the word 'preacher', it still implies actively communicating with others. (Humans need to hear preaching, not angels, right?) How could anyone have taken note of Noah's passive example? As you stuggle in vain to stay afloat, seeing the ark floating by would be of no significance if Noah had not first told you that he was building an ark. How do you surmise that 7 souls are safely aboard, while you are drowning?

  Does Noah stick his head out of the ark and bare his buttocks in contempt of your evil ways?

  Does 'God count that as righteousness on his part'?

  cellmould
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  A Paduan

  Plmkrzy,

  But is life without consequence actually life ?

  So where does one put their faith ? In honour (but not pride) - in what you inherently know to be right, without any rewards or deals.

  I was told I have this life - how so - because I'm alive. If I don't think it's enough, then I may think it unfair - If I could not compare mine, I would know no different. I would simply "recieve the same day's pay" unbeknowns.

  But additionally and without dessert on my part, there is a Gift that has revealed to me more life, so I hope and understand this one. No one could say to me what has been said, not people as I know them. I know this may sound bizarre to someone else.

  If you knew you had an eternal life, how would your life in this one be - it wouldn't matter - you'd know that you are - always time - and what would you do - help people, of course. What else is there to do when you've got all the time in the world?

  paduan

  Edited by - a paduan on 25 August 2002 7:8:31
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  plmkrzy

  paduan

  Kinda like "Ground Hogs Day" eh? The movie of course If you haven't seen it, rent it.
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  A Paduan

  I've seen bits of it on tele, but I can't remember how it went - I suppose given all the time in the world, the main character proceeds to help everyone?

  paduan

  Edited by - a paduan on 25 August 2002 7:34:7