Our Father who art in Pleiades

zev

*** Rbi8 Matthew 6:9-13 *** 9 Y OU must pray, then, this way:

Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. 10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. 11 Give us today our bread for this day; 12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And do not bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one.

*** Reconciliation 1928 p.14 ***
[Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

The constellation of the seven stars forming the Pleides... It has been suggested, and with much weight, that one of the stars of that group is the dwelling-place of Jehovah... The constellation of the Pleiades is a small one compared with others... But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God ...

*** Watchtower 1953 November 15 p.703 Questions from Readers ***

Questions from Readers

What is meant by 'binding the sweet influences of the Pleiades' or 'loosing the bands of Orion' or 'bringing forth Mazzaroth in his seasons' or 'guiding Arcturus with his sons,' as mentioned at Job 38:31, 32?-W. S., New York.

Some attribute striking qualities to these constellations or star groups and on the basis of such they then offer private interpretations of Job 38:31, 32 that amaze their hearers. Their views are not always sound from the standpoint of astronomy, and when viewed Scripturally they are completely without foundation. Why? Because we do not know which stars or groups of stars are being referred to in these verses. The names Pleiades, Orion and Arcturus are not the names given in the Bible. Some translations make Mazzaroth refer to the signs of the Zodiac. English translators have merely adopted these pagan names given to constellations or star groups and have inserted them in their translations in the place of the original names that appear in the Hebrew Scriptures, namely, Kimah, Kesil, Mazzaroth and 'Ayish. To just what stars or star groups these names refer we do not know today. Hence it is useless to indulge in unprofitable speculations. Incidentally, Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God's throne as being at a particular spot in the universe. Were we to think of the Pleiades as his throne we might improperly view with special veneration that cluster of stars.-Deut. 4:19; 2 Chron. 2:6; 6:18.

(last two quotes from the quotes web site)

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ah yes....the ever evolving "he doe's, he doesn't"

past accurate knowledge verse present accurate knowledge?

old light/new light?

past truth / present truth ?

Edited by - zev on 18 August 2002 13:50:20

joeshmoe

Duh. It's really quite clear zev. Sometime in the '40's, while we were all preoccupied with world war, God moved, throne and all. Since he didn't leave a forwarding address, speculation is pointless.

-Joe

blondie

Zev, maybe when Rutherford died and went to heaven he found out he was wrong and sent word to Knorr to make the correction.

minimus

Some attribute...Don't ya just love how THEY had nothing to do with it?

blondie

minimus, the WTS always uses the proverbial "some" to assign responsibility to some nameless group or individual (CYA in my family). Growing up, in my family, "nobody" did everything.

WHO DID IT?

There is a story about four people. Their names are

EVERYBODY, SOMEBODY, ANYBODY, and NOBODY.

The story goes that there was a very important job that needed

to be done. EVERYBODY was asked to do this job. Now

ANYBODY could have done this job but NOBODY was

willing to do it. Then SOMEBODY got angry about this

because it was EVERYBODY'S job to do. Well,

EVERYBODY thought that ANYBODY could have done it!

But NOBODY realized that EVERYBODY blamed

SOMEBODY for not doing the job. Still NOBODY did it. The

arguing got worse and finally NOBODY would talk to

ANYBODY and EVERYBODY blamed SOMEBODY. What

a shame that ANYBODY could have done the job and

EVERYBODY could have helped SOMEBODY but yet

NOBODY did it!

If there is something you know must be done, don't wait for ANYBODY else to do it or hope that SOMEBODY else will do it because NOBODY will do it unless you show EVERYBODY else how to do it.

Edited by - Blondie on 18 August 2002 14:53:12

minimus

BLONDIE, I nominate you for favorite poster of the week!

blondie

I'm blushing. Maybe of the second.

AGuest

Oops! Dearest Zev... may you have peace!

Actually, the fact that the names "Pleiades" and "Orion" are used in many Bible translations is a good CLUE... as to the originality of the translation. Neither words are used in Hebrew, and in this fact, the NWT is closest to the truth when it says Kesil and Kimah constellations. The words Orion and Pleiades, however, are GREEK names for such constellations. How these came to be in certain Bible translations is that most modern translations are/were taken from the GREEK Septuagint and/or the Latin Vulgate. Since the former was done by GREEK men, the words/names used, then, are sometimes GREEK, rather than the original Hebrew.

As for the dwelling place of God, please know and understand that is it NOT a place reached by miles of travel. For the kingdom of God... "is in your MIDST". It is INSIDE you, and yet it is ALL AROUND you. The "Heavens" which are God's dwelling place, are not the "heavens" that we consider as being the sky, atmostphere and outerspace, etc. It is the SPIRIT REALM, which 'permeates everything'. Thus, my Lord said that the kingdom of God is "like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three seah measures of flour until the whole mass was fermented." In other words, it is everywhere.

God dwells, then, not on some far and distant star, but within His 'temple'... which are His people, Israel... and those that 'go with' them. That is why my Lord said that if we obeyed his commandments (which are NOT the commandments of the Law Covenant, literally, but the command to LOVE... and to hear his voice and OBEY it when you do), he and the Father would come, "and MAKE OUR ABODE with him." In other words, come and dwell IN such one, such one being a "living stone" in the "temple" of God. My Lord is the CORNERSTONE of that temple... and the FAITH of the apostles... is the "foundation". Thus, it is NOT a "hand-made temple". John 14:34 Romans 8:9 1 Peter 2:5 Acts 17:24

If, therefore, you are looking for the "dwelling place of God," look inside yourself. If He is not there, by means of His Son, the Christ, not being there (which is manifested by YOU... when you manifest the "fruits of God's spirit: love, joy, peace, faith, mildness, kindness, goodness, long-suffering and self-control...), the I exhort you to hear the invitation of the Spirit and the Bride, to "Come! Take 'life's water', the holy spirit from God through Christ, free!'... and to 'hear' his voice and KNOCK... and let him IN.

It is YOU who must "prepare a place"... in your heart... for HIM. In return, he will "prepare a place" for YOU... in his kingdom.

Revelation 3:17-20 John 14:1-3 John 6:48-56 John 15:7

I bid you peace.

A slave of Christ,

SJ

Edited by - AGuest on 18 August 2002 15:37:6

blondie

Shelby, my personal speculation is that anyone with as much energy as God must dwell outside the physical universe. No Bible basis just my opinion. I can flip the light switch every day and get light and have no idea where the electricity is generated. But thanks for the alternate view.

somebody

LOL@ blondie. To that I ask...Why do I always get blamed for everything? That was great and so true! ( probably in every household)

Aguest,

Peace be with you always, my friend!

You said that the heavens are a SPIRIT REALM, which 'permeates everything'.

So the "heavens" ARE constillations? Or should I word it this way.." the stars are spirit realms".

peace,

somebody

Our Father who art in Pleiades

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