Who are the 144,000?

by EXJWBrit 33 Replies latest jw experiences

  • EXJWBrit
    EXJWBrit

    I swallowed and believed such much shit when I was a JW that I have a few more questions to ask anyone who has the answers. The 144,000 is a big gripe of mine.......

    Right, I was told that the 144,000 found out they were one of the anointed when they had a flash of "revelation" at some point and truly believed it or they had known since they were a child. What a load of shit! But is this the true definition?

    Also, if you stand up one day and say - excuse me, I'm a member of the 144,000. does this mean you are automatically in the GB or can go to Bethel or one of those other elitist clubs? How come most of the anointed seem to be Americans? I find it amusing that most UFO sightings AND claims of being anointed occur in the USA! Does Jehovah like Americans more than Bangladeshis or Algerians. Are they more human? Or better Christians.......... or is JEHOVAH A RACIST?!!!!!!!

    I felt like a piece of shit so much when I was a JW (treatment at school, peer pressure from stuck-up elder's kids etc) that I want to dig up some snobby elitist shit on those muthas. Help me! I will then email your experiences or proof onto other JWs who are still in blinkered zombie-land and actually trust their power-hungry elders.

  • minimus
    minimus

    ahhhh, why are you soo angry over the 144000?

  • EXJWBrit
    EXJWBrit

    Not so angry but anoyed that this elitist band of pretenders was held in awe by the rest of us common muck. Who vetted them? What if they were attention seekers? Where were the checks? What made them so special? Random visits on a whim by the Almighty? It just stank a bit.

    Don't worry Minimus, I don't have a grip with them because of some bad experience in the past, it is just one of those JW legends I swallowed hook, line and sinker.

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    My big question about the 144,000 is how could there still be thousands of slots available 2000 years after Christ. Even if there were 72 faithful Christians chosen each year from Christ's time, the number would have been used up. 144,000 is a tiny number. Especially if you figure that now about 30 Billion people have lived and that number goe up by 100 million every year.

  • Legendary U.2.K.
    Legendary U.2.K.

    I'm 100% sure that the 144,000 Is Even already chosen and in their Graves waiting to Rise up on the last day at the Resurrection of the dead, or They are already chosen and already taken in Jehovah's throne.<-----.....Now the jw's teach That the 144,000 is With their Watchtower, they told me long time Ago that it's only 2000 left and They are with them, in that big kingdom hall get together or something like that.... <----sorry but i study all about the 144,000 and the jw sound like they making up stuff....

  • EXJWBrit
    EXJWBrit

    2000 left? Who's keeping accounts? The book-keepers from ENRON?

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    What does the Bible actually say about the 144,000?

    At Revelation 7:2-8:

    And I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, having the seal of the living God; and he cried out with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."

    And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

    Revelation 14:1-5:

    Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless.

    Several things about them are conspicuously absent. Nowhere does it say that they are the only ones going to Heaven. Or that they have some special position of authority among Christians. Nothing is said about 1935. Nothing is said of people being chosen for this group and later being replaced if they are found unfaithful. Nothing is said of these being the only Christians throughout history to be in the new covenant or to partake of the Lord's Supper. All of this, and much more, is Watchtower fiction constructed for the primary purpose of establishing their own authority.

    In fact, it is apparent that ALL members of this class are alive on earth at the very end time, and not spread out through history, since they are ALL sealed before the judgments of God issue upon the earth, and they are ALL present to stand with the Lamb on Mt. Zion upon his return.

    It is also apparent that they are Jewish, since they are spoken of as coming from the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Some dispensationalists argue that these are a group of Jews who arise during the seven-year Tribulation period as evangelists to bring the message of salvation to the world. I'm not sure whether that is correct or not, but it makes a whole lot more sense than anything the Watchtower teaches on the subject, and doesn't require nearly as much embellishment of what the scripture actually says.

    Now, you can still argue as does the Watchtower if you want. You can assert that the "Lamb", "Mt. Zion", "twelve tribes of Israel" and all the other features mentioned in this prophecy are symbolic. And I'd agree on some of it. The Lamb spoken of is clearly Jesus, not a literal lamb. But if all of the features surrounding this prophecy are figurative in nature, what is the basis for insisting that the number 144,000 is a literal number?

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    After reading the book of Revelation - finally without the help of the WT publications - I believe that the 144,000 are Jews that will accept Jesus as the Messiah. These convert after the rapture and during the great tribulation.

    Then again - it could all be symbolic. I find it hard to believe there would be 144,000 virgins who never lied

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy
    It is also apparent that they are Jewish, since they are spoken of as coming from the twelve tribes of Israel.

    excuse me madman, I need to butt in here and make a coment about this part.

    Example: Just in the last decade or so scientist and archeologists have found or unearthed evidence of the Hebrew language in North America among ruins of Native American land. Thus the rumors that sprang up about the lost tribe etc etc... Some people laugh at it but it really isn't so obsurd.

    This doesn't have to mean that the 144,000 are going to all be of the Jewish faith or even recognized as Jews.

    plum

    Edited by - plmkrzy on 1 August 2002 17:16:56

  • Stealth
    Stealth

    Example: Just in the last decade or so scientist and archeologists have found or unearthed evidence of the Hebrew language in North America among ruins of Native American land. Thus the rumors that sprang up about the lost tribe etc etc... Some people laugh at it but it really isn't so obsurd.

    Could you please provide some references or links that will prove this?

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