Chemical explanation to superstition?

by JanH 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • JanH
    JanH

    From http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992589

    Paranormal beliefs linked to brain chemistry

    19:00 24 July 02

    Whether or not you believe in the paranormal may depend entirely on your brain chemistry. People with high levels of dopamine are more likely to find significance in coincidences, and pick out meaning and patterns where there are none.

    (Photo: Photonica)

    Peter Brugger, a neurologist from the University Hospital in Zurich, Switzerland, has suggested before that people who believe in the paranormal often seem to be more willing to see patterns or relationships between events where sceptics perceive nothing.

    To find out what could be triggering these thoughts, Brugger persuaded 20 self-confessed believers and 20 sceptics to take part in an experiment.

    Brugger and his colleagues asked the two groups to distinguish real faces from scrambled faces as the images were flashed up briefly on a screen. The volunteers then did a similar task, this time identifying real words from made-up ones.

    Seeing and believing

    Believers were much more likely than sceptics to see a word or face when there was not one, Brugger revealed last week at a meeting of the Federation of European Neuroscience Societies in Paris. However, sceptics were more likely to miss real faces and words when they appeared on the screen.

    The researchers then gave the volunteers a drug called L-dopa, which is usually used to relieve the symptoms of Parkinson's disease by increasing levels of dopamine in the brain.

    Both groups made more mistakes under the influence of the drug, but the sceptics became more likely to interpret scrambled words or faces as the real thing.

    That suggests that paranormal thoughts are associated with high levels of dopamine in the brain, and the L-dopa makes sceptics less sceptical. "Dopamine seems to help people see patterns," says Brugger.

    Plateau effect

    However, the single dose of the drug did not seem to increase the tendency of believers to see coincidences or relationships between the words and images.

    That could mean that there is a plateau effect for them, with more dopamine having relatively little effect above a certain threshold, says Peter Krummenacher, one of Brugger's colleagues.

    Dopamine is an important chemical involved in the brain's reward and motivation system, and in addiction. Its role in the reward system may be to help us decide whether information is relevant or irrelevant, says Franoise Schenk from the University of Lausanne in Switzerland.

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    ooh it vexes me when scientists explain away mystical things like love or "paranormal" activity. i believe in paranormal activity because it happened to me. before i was a witness. i don't believe in "demons" like the witnesses taught me. but i do believe in unseen spiritrual forces or energies, definitley. there are some things occam's razor just can't explain. i have had encounters with paranormal things (as a child, before the jw's) and after, as a young adult. in fact, i was going to start a thread about it and ask people if they had any experiences with "ghosts"... but i won't hijack this thread, i'll post it sometime. p.s. do you think it's all chemical? just curious.

  • JanH
    JanH

    InP,

    p.s. do you think it's all chemical? just curious.

    Our brain is a big electro-chemical machine, so what else should we expect?

    Of course, since that is essentially what we are, at all feels real to us. But in cases where different people's perceptions of the same reality is different, it is reasonable to suspect that the actual brain/mind may have some slight dysfunctions.

    - Jan

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    However, sceptics were more likely to miss real faces and words when they appeared on the screen.
    I see that it cuts both ways.

    SS

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    Now I'm confused Jan - thanks a bundle.

    I'm extremely interested in all of this stuff. I don't think those comments completely snuff paranormal activity....I just think it says that those with higher dopamine levels are more likey to recognise paranormal activity than those with less.

    After reading that, I have decided that I must have a lot of this dopamine floating around in the top paddock because I see patterns in lots of things - I'm always looking for patterns and trying to make sense of them. I'm getting some help with this btw...but it sure is interesting!

    Beck

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    jan: ok well i wasn't going to get into my experiences but...

    strange things happened to me when i was little, particularly in this one house that we rented. i was about 9, so i was aware of the world around me and my place in it by then. some of the things that would happen would be: we would be lying in our beds at night, with our eyes open, and suddenly feel a hand on our face. as if the hand was open and just sort of feeling your whole face. my brothers and sisters all experienced the same phenomena. another time, i awakened feeling very frightened. i lay there as still as a mouse and felt the sheet i was covered with being pulled. i thought my brother was playing a trick on me. but ther was no one there. so i turned on the bathrrom light and proceeded to lie on the floor directly in the doorway and the light. suddenly, the sheet proceeded to fly about, as if someone was fluffing it. i screamed and still it kept going, only stopping when my mom came in to see what was wrong. i told her and she said it was only a dream, but i know i wa swide awake. other things that happened were: one night the whole family was gone. it was just me and my dad in the house. he was asleep in the next room. i could hear him snoring loudly. i didn't feel right in that house, so i laid on the couch to watch johnny carson. i heard footsteps in the hallway. the hallway was carpeted. the footsteps were unlike anything i had ever heard. they were loud and slow and amplified. i could still hear my father snoring away in the bedroom. i kept hearing the footsteps and i forced myself to get up and i ran into the bedroom shaking my father awake, terrified. of course he thought i wa imagining things. after that, i told my older brothers and they said weird things happened in the kitchen at night, like the refrigerator door opening by itself, the stove turning itself on, etc. so one night we waited up til like 2 in the morning and we heard a noise in the kitchen. sure enough, the door slowly opened by itself. that sent chills up my spine. then the dials on the stove all began to turn, again very slowly, until all the burners were red hot. but the most profound thing, which made us move out, was when my older sister began hearing noises in the wall of her bedroom. shoe told us about it but we were afraid to sleep in there. one night she screamed out and we all went in there, my whole family, and she was in the bed saying "see?see?" and sure enough you could hear this loud drumming all around the room, as if something was running around in circles all across the walls and ceiling. her bedroom was really an old laundry room, and it still had the double sink it it. the next night i was going to the bathroom and was just siting there looking at the bathroom rug that came with the house and notieced it had all these gargoyle-type faces in it, with horns and just really creepy. no one had noticed that before. we examined all the rugs in the house and they all looked like that. my mom told the landlord and she said a couple had lived in the house and the wife had murdered the husband and attempted to dismember him in that double sink in the back room. we didn't stay another day in that house.

    i know it sounds contrived, or cliche', but it all really happened. and not just to one person, but a whole group of people. so how can it be explained as a singular "hallucination"?

    anyway that's why i believe...

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    dopamine floating around in the top paddock

    heehee that's a good one. i love your way with words. i see patterns in everything, but i think because i am an artist and writer i think we're programmed to see things in things. you are creative too, just by the way you put things.

  • COMF
    COMF
    do you think it's all chemical?

    Of course it is, hon. Electro-chemical, anyway. That's what we are. We're physical, chemical, and what we think and feel and decide and believe is all electrochemical. That doesn't make it less wonderful, in fact, it helps us understand why humans do what we do.

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints

    comf: i met this guy who was a pagan. i mean a devout practiotiner of paganism. i mean he didn't dabble in it to be cool, he was as sincere and faithful as a priest. anyway i only mention this because he was very sane and educated and intelligent and from a good family, but many of the things he told me an outsider would consider bizarre and unbelievable. anyway, in knowing him and studying some of the things he did, i learned not to fear these unseen forces. they were all just part of nature and deserved more than being distilled down to a chemical reaction. don't you think that there are things that we simply cannot explain because we don't have enough experience with it? i don't believe in what pagans do, but i do feel that there are spiritual energies and forces around us everywhere. it sounds silly i know. i don't think of them in the conventional or hollywood ideal of spirits. i just think of them as energy.

    you wanna hear somethng interesting? nasa has these towers in remote parts of the world, particularly where the aurora borealis occur. anyway they have cameras and sound recorders and they have picked up some unusual sounds that occur in conjunction with the appearance of the aurora. they took these sounds and plugged them into osciloscopes and compared the patterns to the sounds emitted by whales and dolphins. guess what? the patterns were the same. don't you think that's cool? and do;t you wonder why that is? i wish i could remember the website. i'll search for it.it even had .wav files of the sounds.

  • Beck_Melbourne
    Beck_Melbourne

    I & P

    Can you drop me an email at patch77@hotmail when you get a chance - re: your experience. Your email is blocked and I would like to correspond with you if I can. Thanks so much.

    Beck

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