by You Know 134 Replies latest watchtower bible
You name two non christian mass murderers as among the most important to your theology. Jesus' examples and life don't figure much. This says a lot about you and the wt. Neither are christian. Take away ot, genocidal non christian material from you and the wt, relying only on christian writings and you would be lost.
SS
You Know,
Don't forget to spread some of that "love" this way by responding to my post! LOL
YOU KNOW:
DO YOU COUNT THIS AS TIME? WHEN YOU ARE IN THESE CHAT ROOMS AND RESPOND OR POST, DO YOU ENTER THIS ON YOUR TIME SHEET? IF YOU DO, AND WHEN YOU REPLY, IS THAT A RETURN VISIT?
if we are apostates, does this mean that the time doesnt count?
I did not know the history of this organization. If I had known I would have not been converted.
YOU KNOW repsonds "Well, that's why the Society would rather you not know about those things"
YOU KNOW admits that the WT lies and witholds the truth! YOU KNOW admits that if people knew the real history of the WT they would never join! So my question to YOU KNOW is, YOU KNOW the 'truth' of the WT so then why in the hell are you still part of it??????
"...I've got to spread the love around. / You Know"
YOU ADMITS he has VD!
You Know...
1. I would like for you to present your BIBLICAL evidence that the WTBS or the group calling themselves "Jehovah's Witnesses" is/are God's chosen organization on earth today.
2. Is there any BIBLICAL evidence (or reason) NOT to follow the WTBS (or similar groups) based on their teachings alone? (this is irrespective of the current scandals that cause them (the WTBS) to need "cleansing")
I think these questions are straightforward enough for you to answer, and answer honestly.
Thank you.
Saint Satan says:
You name two non christian mass murderers as among the most important to your theology. Jesus' examples and life don't figure much. This says a lot about you and the wt. Neither are christian. Take away ot, genocidal non christian material from you and the wt, relying only on christian writings and you would be lost.
You are correct in pointing out that David spilled a lot of blood. Jehovah took note of that and that's why God forbade him from building his temple. As for Moses, he personally only killed one man, the Egyptian. But, you are right about us being lost with ot the OT. Jesus would have been lost without it to. But, since we have it, we are able to use it to defend our faith. Jesus certainly did. He frequently referred to the writings of Moses and David and made reference to specific instances in the lives of both men. As regards my reference to them I used Moses and David to show that those whom Jehovah places in positions of leadership are subject to serious blunder, and that God does in fact hold his servants responsible for their error. Obviously though Christ is the only one who wasn't plagued by his own shortcomings, so how can I use him as an example in that regard? Clearly, your thinking on this issue is a little muddled to say the least.
I will get to other respondents as time permits. / You Know
I posed the question, "Were you that stupid all those years you were in the truth?" It is a reasonable question I think. And, apparently the answer for some of you is yes.
If by "stupid," waht you mean is 'able to be deceived by clever liars,' then, yes, many of us were that stupid. But that doesn't change the fact that JW's are clever liars. I was 17 when I got baptized as a JW. Young and naive. Utterly without the life experience that, with more maturity, might have caused me to be more skeptical about what I was getting into. Most people do stupid things at 17. Some get involved with drugs, with unwise sexual choices, with crime, etc. I got involved with a cult instead. I'm not proud of it, believe me.
So, my next question is, if you were that stupid then, what makes you trust your own judgment on matters now?
Maturity and experience. Following your reasoning to the logical conclusion, all JW's who converted from other religions should now go back to those religions, or, at least seriously question the foundations of the one they're in now. But we don't want them "thinking independently", now do we?
From my standpoint, then, those who have left the truth are the ones with the credibility problem, not those who remain.
Well, that's from your standpoint only, then. In this forum, you are the one with a very serious credibility problem. Like other JW's, you have frequently shown yourself to be less than honest in your presentations at times.
I can defend my faith on any topic of your choosing using the Bible and the Bible only.
I've never seen you do it once. Rather, in standard Watchtower fashion, you cite a scripture and meander off into wide areas of speculation and human reasoning. That is not at all the same thing as proving your case using the Bible alone.
Let's face it, not all of Jehovah's Witnesses have a personal relationship with Jehovah, but many do. Those who do are in the truth.
I would change "many" to "some," but I actually may agree with you to some extent on this. A few JW's may be individuals who have placed faith in Jesus Christ prior to their getting involved with the Watchtower. The relationship they formed at that time remains in place. Occasionally, you do meet a JW who appears to be a truly spiritual person. Most are simply followers of the organization. When such a truly spiritual person appears, he is usually at best seen as a "weirdo" by his congregation, and at worst gets disfellowshipped as an apostate, because he puts too much emphasis on Jesus and not enough on the organization.
And the Watchtower has served as an instrumentality by introducing us to God and Christ.
No. The Watchtower is an instrument used by Satan to keep people away from God and Christ. By imparting some Bible knowledge, a false gospel, and another Jesus, and by substituting itself for Christ as a go-between with God, the organization actually prevents people from coming to a real relationship with God and Christ, while at the same time providing them with a false "spirituality" based on numbers and outward works to keep them so busy that they don't know what they're missing.
I think you have allowed yourself to be stumbled by the failings of the Watchtower.
And one should be stumbled - away from the organization, that is - by its failings. The Watchtower presents itself as God's sole channel of communication, as His prophet in these "last days". That is a weighty claim that leaves no room for error. The fact that there are "failings" proves that the Watchtower (which is held to be closely associated with Jehovah's Witnesses until apologists like you find it necessary to distance themselves from its practices) is not what it claims to be. It is a false prophet organization, and God tells us not to be afraid of such ones. It is not as if an otherwise good organization had a few flaws in it. The Watchtower's claims are absolute. Its demands of its followers are absolute. Therefore, its performance must be absolute. But that is not the case. Therefore, the entire organization must be disregarded as a possible source of truth.
I find it interesting that in a 1993 Watchtower, the organization claimed that it could not be a false prophet, since "false prophets do not admit their mistakes". That is an absurd claim, and is actually an outright lie. The only prophets who could admit their mistakes are false prophets, since true prophets do not make mistakes! The words of true prophets are from God, and do not fail. It is only false prophets who present their own words who must later eat those words, as the Watchtower has had to do over and over again. For this reason, nothing they say can be accepted as pure and true. Everything must be discarded and reevaluated.
As for Moses, he personally only killed one man,I wonder how many people hitler killed, personally.
you are right about us being lost with ot the OT. Jesus would have been lost without it to.Jesus' actions and many of his declarations were reactionary against the eye for eye literlist/materialist ot spirit. Jesus declared an ephemeral kingdom, which the jewish rulers, with their temple and their holy nation found ludicrous. Jesus didn't need the ot. Even jesus' disciples didn't know what he was about. The wt is in the same boat. It points to a visable 'new nation'. That's why it and you aren't really even christian. You are focussed on the visable.
Fundamentalist christianity isn't much better. It's christianity is a thin veneer covering ot barbarism. Even paul, who created many church rules, was more spiritual than the wt. Romans 2:27
The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[ 2:27 Or who, by means of a] writtencode and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
(Whole Chapter: Romans 2 In context: Romans 2:26-28) Romans 2:29
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the writtencode. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
(Whole Chapter: Romans 2 In context: Romans 2:28-30) Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the writtencode.
(Whole Chapter: Romans 7 In context: Romans 7:5-7) Colossians 2:14
having canceled the writtencode, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. Ted jaracz put it simply when he said that he doesn't go beyond what is written. Too bad.
As regards my reference to them I used Moses and David to show that those whom Jehovah places in positions of leadership are subject to serious blunder, and that God does in fact hold his servants responsible for their error.Mt23 8 But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.
Obviously though Christ is the only one who wasn't plagued by his own shortcomings, so how can I use him as an example in that regard?It's a sad confession you make. For christians, he is supposed to be the centre of their life. He demonstrated how to feel toward sinners. He demonstrated how he fealt toward the hypocritical leaders. He denounced them. There is a lot of material in his words that you could apply to the wt and its screwups. But that would show the wt to be the same as the scribes and pharisees. SS
Edited by - saintsatan on 19 July 2002 13:24:54
Edited by - saintsatan on 19 July 2002 13:31:5
For the past 114 years, The Watchtower, like a skillful lawyer, has established itself as a defender of Bible truth and doctrine. In the process, it has won the confidence of millions of appreciative readers. It still powerfully supports the ransom. (See, for example, the issue of February 15, 1991.) And it continues to be the principal instrument of "the faithful and discreet slave" and its Governing Body for announcing Jehovah's established Kingdom and dispensing spiritual food "at the proper time."-Matthew 24:14, 45.
What about the Awake! magazine? From its beginning, Awake! too has advocated truth. Originally called The Golden Age, this magazine was designed for public distribution. Regarding its objective, the first issue, dated October 1, 1919, stated: "Its purpose is to explain in the light of Divine wisdom the true meaning of the great phenomena of the present day and to prove to thinking minds by evidence incontrovertible and convincing that the time of a greater blessing of mankind is now at hand." Thinking people responded to the message of The Golden Age. For a number of years, its circulation was even greater than that of The Watchtower.
The apostates (ExJW's) have been lost like a puppy since they have no more hope. And those pups have been going back to eat the discusting thing.
Bleep
Gee, it's amazing that the bible even survived until the wt came to defend it. Imagine, 1800 yr period of attacks on the bible with no orgs to defend it, and here it still is, one of the most solid pieces of inspired writings. Yah, right. The only reason we have bibles all over the place is because it became the roman state religion, and the catholic church propagated it relentlessly. The catholic church has been it's custodian for 1700 yrs. The reformation/protestantism made it readily available to the common person.
The wt has done nothing to help the bible cause. Russel and rutherford concocted many wierd extrabiblical ideas that standard christianity hasn't had. The wt added many words to the bible canon, notably the name jehovah to the nt 235 times, where none existed before. The wt even admits that there are no manuscripts that agree w them. The wt's bible defence methods serve only their own purposes.
SS
Edited by - saintsatan on 20 July 2002 23:1:40
