Are any of you actually witnesses here?

by A_Revelation 57 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Xander
    Xander

    Ah, some people beat me to the 607 thing - cool.

    I did have some other comments on your reply, though:

    it's been taken out because when you start a study you go through a brochure "Blood how can it save you" or some such title.

    This might be a change, so I'd like you to verify, if possible. Last I understood, two publications were studied before baptism - the 'Knowledge' book and a brochure that was out at the time - I don't remember the name, but it had a picture of several people of different nationalities on the cover and was regarding a 'god of love' or somesuch - maybe "Does God Really Care About Us?". The 'blood' brochure was definately something we were told NOT to study with the householders - indeed, it was implied we should skirt the question until they were baptised.

    As for the blood card, they don't renew every year anymore because it doesn't go out of date so to speak, just cause it's last years model!

    Well, that is SIGNIFICANTLY different from past teachings.

    From a 1998 KM regarding the 'blood card' part (from the 1999 Watchtower CD):

    20 min: Prepare Now to Uphold Gods Law on Blood. Qualified elder discusses importance of filling out both the Advance Medical Directive/Release card and the Societys health-care power of attorney form. Inspired direction at Psalm 19:7 shows that Acts 15:28, 29 is an expression of Gods perfect law on blood. Loyal worshipers strive to uphold that law. These documents make known your determination to do so and speak for you when you are unable to speak for yourself. (Compare Proverbs 22:3.) A new card provides a current declaration of your refusal to take blood. Following this meeting, baptized Witnesses who desire to have a new card will be given one, and those with unbaptized minor children will receive an Identity Card for each child. These cards are not to be filled out tonight. They should be filled out carefully at home but NOT signed. Signing, witnessing, and dating of all cards will be done after the next Congregation Book Study, under the supervision of the book study conductor. This will ensure that all assigned to his group who want to execute this medical directive have the needed assistance. Those signing as witnesses should actually see the cardholder sign the document. Anyone missing at that time and who desires to fill out and sign a card will be assisted by conductors/elders at the next Service Meeting until all baptized publishers have their cards properly completed. (Review letter of October 15, 1991.) By adapting language from this card to their own circumstances and convictions, unbaptized publishers may write out their own directive to use for themselves and their children. The durable power of attorney form on the other hand is a more comprehensive document and, since it is based on state statutory law, is respected by medical and legal personnel. (Refer as needed to the January 1997 sheet entitled "Information About the Societys Health-Care Durable Power of Attorney Forms" and the Question Box in the December 1995 OurKingdomMinistry.) For the best legal protection, it is recommended that both documents be filled out. On the front of the Advance Medical Directive/Release card write, preferably in your own hand: "I have also executed a health-care power of attorney."

    And, in 1997, the language was even stronger:

    20 min: Time to Renew the Advance Medical Directive/Release Card. Qualified elder discusses importance of filling out card completely and carrying it at all times. This document speaks for you if you are unable to speak for yourself in an emergency. (Compare Proverbs 22:3.) A new card needs to be filled out every year to give a current declaration on refusal of blood, since some doctors and others have claimed that documents older than one year may not reflect a persons current conviction. After the meeting, all baptized publishers will be given the Advance Medical Directive/Release card, and those with unbaptized minor children will receive an Identity Card for each child. Explain that these cards are not to be filled out tonight. They should be filled out carefully at home but NOT signed. Signing, witnessing, and dating of all cards will be done following the next Congregation Book Study, under the supervision of the book study conductor. He will check to see that all assigned to his group received a card and have needed assistance. Those signing as witnesses should actually see the cardholder sign the document. Anyone missing at that time will be assisted by conductors/elders at the next Service Meeting until all baptized publishers have their cards properly filled out and signed. (Review letter of October 15, 1991.) By adapting language from this card to their own circumstances and convictions, unbaptized publishers may write out their own directive to use for themselves and their children. Refer to Question Box of the December 1995 OurKingdomMinistry. Explain that the health-care power of attorney (proxy) form provided by the Society is a legal document recognized by medical and legal personnel and that when it is properly filled out, it offers additional legal assurance that ones wishes will be respected on blood and other health-care and end-of-life decisions. Baptized publishers may obtain a copy of this document from the secretary. (Unlike the Advance Medical Directive/Release card, which is renewed annually, the health-care power of attorney (proxy) form needs to be replaced only when you elect to make a change in it.) Exercising insight in caring for these vital details will merit good from Jehovah.Prov. 16:20.

    Edited by - Xander on 15 July 2002 20:41:15

  • tkmmorgan
    tkmmorgan

    A_Rev,

    Since you don't seem to take what anybody here says as having any merit, how about listening to the WTBS?

    "We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated with. If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination." (The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, 1968)

    If we want to worship God acceptably, we must know the truth. This is an important issue. Our eternal happiness depends on it. Therefore, everyone should ask himself: Is my way of worship acceptable to God? Am I genuinely interested in learning the truth of Gods Word? Or am I afraid of what a careful investigation might reveal? (Watchtower October 1, 1998)

    When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?(Watchtower Jan. 15, 1974)

    That is what people on this board are attempting to do-give warning. You could do a lot worse than to take what they say seriously instead of dismissing it out of hand.

    Good luck,

    Todd

    Edited by - tkmmorgan on 16 July 2002 12:3:3

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman
    why do you feel the need to tell people?
    they should find out for themselves
    cant you see you are all being molded by satan

    We could ask these same questions of you. If the JWs represent "Truth", then people should be able to find out for themselves.

    Why do you feel the need to tell people?

  • Bosho
    Bosho

    Xander,

    You asked about verifying the blood thing.

    This might be a change, so I'd like you to verify, if possible. Last I understood, two publications were studied before baptism - the 'Knowledge' book and a brochure that was out at the time - I don't remember the name, but it had a picture of several people of different nationalities on the cover and was regarding a 'god of love' or somesuch - maybe "Does God Really Care About Us?". The 'blood' brochure was definately something we were told NOT to study with the householders - indeed, it was implied we should skirt the question until they were baptised.

    The brochure is called "What does God require of us?" This one is studied first as it gives an overall view of God's requirements in brief and then the Knowledge book goes into detail.

    Lesson 12 of the brochure is called "Showing Respect for Life and Blood."

    Paragraph Five and Six quoted here (I've taken it straight from the CDROM and pasted it here):

    *** rq 25 12 Showing Respect for Life and Blood ***


    5. Blood is also sacred in Gods eyes. God says that the soul, or life, is in the blood. So it is wrong to eat blood. It is also wrong to eat the meat of an animal that has not been properly bled. If an animal is strangled or dies in a trap, it should not be eaten. If it is speared or shot, it must be bled quickly if it is to be eaten.Genesis 9:3, 4; Leviticus 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29.

    6. Is it wrong to accept a blood transfusion? Remember, Jehovah requires that we abstain from blood. This means that we must not take into our bodies in any way at all other peoples blood or even our own blood that has been stored. (Acts 21:25) So true Christians will not accept a blood transfusion. They will accept other kinds of medical treatment, such as transfusion of nonblood products. They want to live, but they will not try to save their life by breaking Gods laws.Matthew 16:25.

    So apparantly it's no longer in the new Worship book as this is studied after the brochure and Knowledge book. (I believe if the person studying wants more information then the brochure on BLood is studied)

    As for the blood card, we were told in our meeting in January that they wouldn't be giving out new cards as the society had been advised (by their legal team) that just because they were a year old they were still legally valid (which is the whole point I believe)

    So I guess to keep costs down, they won't be updated en mass. However if you require a new one you can ask your congregation secretary who will give you a new card.

    Hope this helps.

  • Bleep
    Bleep

    Dutchie said, "But I stopped being one when I realized that Jehovahs Witnesses do not teach the truth as they claim to be."

    Me -Was it the news program that you got this idea? Some news want to show that an orginization has a spot of imperfection since it rarely happens.

    Me again -Seems like they have to get even since the Catholics were caught doing wrong. It's been along time in coming for them to fix the problem of gay priests.

    Dutchie said, "Hi Mark, I also saw the show and I really enjoyed it. I used to be one of jehovah's witnesses, in fact I was one for many years as I was born into it."

    Me - No one is born into the truth. It is brought threw accurate knowledge of the Bible and only after Dedication threw Baptism.

    Me again - Must be confused with the babies in the church.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : I am 16 and found the program annoying in the fact that we were portrayed completely wrong.

    I have socks older than you, sonny boy. Where's your evidence?

    Farkel

  • Mac
    Mac

    Welcome Mark,

    I don't intend to be cruel, but according to Watchtower doctrine you will not be seeing your father again in paradise. You will be meeting a new creation of similar physical characteristics that has been programmed by Jehovah with his personality traits and memories, in short, a clone! Research this with your literature and you will find that the witnesses really don't teach a true resurrection.

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Hi A_rev, hope you are still reading.
    I am an active Jehovah's witness from the US; i still attend and believe in Jehovah, and his son.
    If you would be baptized, think about this:

    What you think it is, and what the organization treats it as are TWO different things. It in reality becomes a social contract, and if you break one of the unwritten rules you will be shunned. These include:

    oral sex, if you are not repentant (yes even if you are married)

    questioning elder's authority or methods

    smoking

    association with disfellowshiped ones

    causing divisions, as in the case of Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson, whose only crime was to call to account the unfair, immoral and criminal treatment of sex abuse victims, and the covering up of abusers

    if you confess more than once to behaviour that is unchristian, and they don't think you are working hard enough or are sorry enough, you will be put out; my second son just confessed to old things that were bothering him, and they bounced him even after his attitude changed. This after they knew that he is depressed enough to engage in self mutilating behaviour.

    THINK THINK THINK

    If you get baptized, you will have NO way ever to back away gracefully

    If you don't get baptized, you always have a choice.....

    Pray hard, and see if you get an answer, a_rev; pray to Jah to tell you if the elders in your local hall will always have the answers for you, and then listen to the answers.

    LISTEN to what was said on this board: HOW can truth be harmed by falsehood?
    More likely that falsehood can be smashed by truth.

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