An interesting conversation

by Salud 10 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Salud
    Salud

    I want to share this experience I recently had with everyone here.

    Last weekend I spoke to my good friend who was a JW elder but has since stepped down, nonetheless still calls me on a regular basis despite my being DF'd. He just moved back to the Northwest to his old congregation and he was telling me some of the things the publishers are talking about and what the elders are telling these publishers.

    First he tells me that the Dateline topic is HOT. Everyone is talking about it. And you have to be very careful what you say. Him and I discussed Dateline and the whole situation behind it prior to it ever airing so he was very familiar with it. Well the publishers and the elders told him that Barbara Anderson never went to Bethel! That it is all a big fat lie, and they can prove it with the time reference that she claims to have been there. Also they are saying that a sister could not have had so many priviledges as she claims she did, it is unheard of.

    They are also telling the publishers as they told him that all the Dateline personalities are disfellowshipped and are apostates. Of course he argued with them at the risk of incriminating himself and told them that they have no way of proving this and that they should not be making such comments. He also mentioned that they are telling everyone that Erica lied about the whole ordeal and that an innocent man went to prison. I could not believe it, and so couldn't he!! What this tells me more than ever is that the elders will take any opportunity to discredit this program and advance the Society's agenda with no regard to telling the truth. How often were we counseled on spreading rumors or making sure we had the story straight. Hypocrites!!

    Do you want to hear more? When I went to visit my family back in the Northwest on the 4th I also had the opportunity to speak to my wifes 'spiritual mom'. I took the initiative and called her on the phone to see how she and her husband were, (they are in their 70's), she had called several times in the last 1 1/2 years to check on us and would just whisper on the phone, maybe she was afraid an angel would hear and run and tell Jehovah. Anyway I was hoping she would think that I was doing my 'christian duty' by calling her. Well after the intro. she asked me "what do you want", not how are you? Or how is your wife who has been suffering and feeling ill? In fact she never once asked for her 'spiritual daughter'. I must say I was taken back by her cold and chilling response.

    Well before we could go any further she asked if I was going to meetings. Well I told her with a resounding voice, NO. Well in her mind that was going to be the determining factor whether she would continue the conversation with me or not. But I was not done yet, I was not going let her off the hook that easy. Somehow I got her to listen to me and I told her how wrong disfellowshipping is and how it so unloving and unscriptural. I tried to read her scriptures from the Bible but she would have no part of it. One thing led to another until we started in on Dateline. Well she starts off with all those on Dateline are disfellowshipped and apostates. Well I told her no they are not. And she say's (in a sarcastic sorta' voice) how do you know that? Well I told her that I know these people personally and I can say firsthand that they are not. Is that silence I hear at the other end of the phone?

    Next she went on to say that Erica lied about the whole thing. I asked how does she know this, she replied her elders told her so, and if it was true about Erica the elders in her congregation would have told Erica's parents to go to the Police. I tried telling her of my personal experiences as an elder and how we were instructed to FIRST call the Society when something like this happened, and then follow their instructuions, but she stops me in the middle of my sentence and says "I do not want to hear any details". She even said that Erica herself said she is disfellowshipped, and I said WHAT!?! Needless to say she did not want to tell me which part of the program aired this. I am convinced that these people hear what they want to hear.

    She proceeded to say how Jehovah is blessing the organization because of the increase this year (yup, everyone knows about the increase) well I told her that if that is the case then I will become a Mormon since they are growing faster than the Witnesses, then I stopped and said, no wait! I will become a Muslim. They are growing faster yet!! Of course she told me I can become whatever I want.

    She ended the conversation by saying that she was leaving the next day for Tacoma, WA for 3 "wonderful and glorious days of spiritual instruction at the convention with her brothers and sisters". I told her to have a nice time!!

    What all this shows is that the Organization will flat out LIE to their members and hence make their members liars in the process in order to protect an image and discredit the truth. I believe that the CO's and DO's directed by the Society are the ones taking the lead by spreading this garbage. The slander they are spreading is incredible. They have to do this because if what Dateline said is true then the Witnesses have a big problem on their hands and it calls into question everything they have been told and led to believe. Therefore they are prepairing their troops for Theocratic warfare. The mentality of your average Witness is becoming even more callous and hateful, hence not being open to any reasoning and making them more close-minded than ever before in the process. Their duty is first and foremost to their wonderful earthly organization, forget 'Jehovah', forget 'Jesus', forget the Bible. Well they can have it!!

  • one
    one

    Salud,

    What?

    Ttrying to reason with 70 years old 'spiritual' jw motherinlaw?

    What did you expect?

    It is much better if she/they get informed or learn the thruth about the truth through third channels. Better if they can not respond to the channel/messenger, so they are forced to hear or read, such as newpaper article or tv show similar to dateline...

    Otherwise she/they can hear but can't listen or reason. Some burn in rage and kind of become a totally 'different' person while reacting to the real truth. Amazing, it almost makes me belevie spiritual forces exist.

    Fear/Anger is tye typical reaction when you confront someone with facts they dont want hear about..

    Been ther done that.

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie
    They are also telling the publishers as they told him that all the Dateline personalities are disfellowshipped and are apostates.

    Salud, if you remember, that statement was refuted by J.R. Brown himself, when he explained to Dateline that the reason he would not appear on camera was because the people in question still considered themselves Jehovahs Witnesses and that the media was not the place to settle difference between brothers. He even quoted scripture. So the argument that they were apotates does not hold water.

    Edited by - Dutchie on 13 July 2002 21:43:25

    Edited by - Dutchie on 13 July 2002 21:51:42

  • Golden Girl
    Golden Girl

    OK I have to tell you what my JW Mother in Law is saying about the show. She said that she believed it! BUT....they were all apostates that snuck their way into the organization!

    And that Jehovah is now cleaning them out..They say that the show was aloud to be on for a reason...to clean out the org!

    She even asked for a copy of it so she could show it to the ones that missed it!

    I also verified that Subscriptions are no longer available ..period...to anyone! The only thing they will send is the Large print Watchtower in Subscription form. It ONLY has the study articles in it.

    Strange..they cashed my hubby's check but didn't send the magazines..only a "Thank you for your donation " letter! No explanation. I wonder how many people that don't attend the Kingdom Hall lost money that way? I specified that it was for a subscription for my brother for 1 year to the Watchtower and Awake! (My brother has bible discussions with others and likes to use all religions material.) Think I should ask for a refund?? Maybe contact the Better Business Bureau?

    ps...Try to reason wth a 80 year old JW...

    Golden Girl aka ....Snoozy

    I guess you will lhave to pick up any magazines you want at the Kingdom Hall or from someone going door to door or a friend or a relative.NOT!

    Edited by - Golden Girl on 13 July 2002 23:19:6

  • Salud
    Salud

    Dutchie,

    You said re. JR Brown:

    when he explained to Dateline that the reason he would not appear on camera was because the people in question still considered themselves Jehovahs Witnesses and that the media was not the place to settle difference between brothers. He even quoted scripture. So the argument that they were apotates does not hold water.

    I know that JR Brown made those comments even posting them on the Society's own website. But try telling this to any loyal Witness. The problem is that the elders are not relaying this info. to the publishers in their respective congregations. I'm also hearing that many elders are telling publishers that the reason Bill and Barbara are being DF'd is due to moral issues. Talk about slandering your name, I wish the courts, as liberal as they are getting, would give us more leverage to sue against these religions who have no regard for peoples character.

    One:

    I knew that she would not be all that reasonable. Perhaps the reason I called was more of closure for myself. If she felt she could call anytime w/o regard for the Society policies regarding disfellowshipped individuals, then I felt I could also return the favor, in a loving way of course.

    Golden Girl,

    Hope your hubby did not send them too much money.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Salud,

    You hopefully said:

    Talk about slandering your name, I wish the courts, as liberal as they are getting, would give us more leverage to sue against these religions who have no regard for peoples character.
    I surely wish the same as you do!

    However, in reality the courts are rarely ever interested in adjudicating what they would see to be religious disputes and personality clashes between members. There is no pressure from society at-large to break up religions, at least not yet. And personality clashes -- they don't want the headache of "he said" vs. "she said", as much as we know how hurtful the lies and slander the Society and its henchmen generates actually is.

    But when it comes to heinous crimes such as child rape and molestation, then they will vigorously pursue it. And this is to be expected, given the current movement in society to go after child molestors. (Hopefully this movement will deter future child molestors??? or is that wishful thinking)

    Gopher

  • SYN
    SYN

    Brick Wall Adventures, Part 10303221!

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    If Dateline have aired a program that contained big fat lies I would hope that the WTBTS would be pursuing this rigorously in the courts. Isn't that happening? Didn't think so........

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Sounds to me like the ropes at the "outer edges" are being pulled in for more control. The Org is nuckling down and taking even more control of their borg.

    This is no doubt being done to make "them" feel more select and protected, and intended for those on the other side, like "us", to feel hopelessly lost.

    It's not working with me, and sounds like it's not working with the other poster's on here.

    Karen

  • crawdad2
    crawdad2

    they are just tightening up....... they are going to get way tighter............. anyone who seems to disagree with their propaganda and explanations of the whole situation, is going to be removed from the congregations......

    all the ones who really care about children are going to get kicked out of the organization or leave, leaving a tuned-up corrupt machine behind, to handle the instructions of the gov body.

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