The meeting my wife and I had with her elder.

by FRUSR8TD 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  FRUSR8TD

  Hello all...

  For those who don't know..My wife and I have been married for almost 7 years, she had left the WT before we met. I have never been a JW. After 9/11 my mother in law used fear to "scare" her back into the (b)org.

  Ok, now 10 months later our marriage is in serious trouble. (go figure)

  We have decided to get marriage counseling and individual therapy. I asked her to give up her Thurs. night meeting...(my days off are Wed. and Thurs.)...so that we could spend as much quality family time (with the kids to) together as possible. She completely refused.

  I got the bright idea that I would invite an elder in this "loving" organization to come over and help talk some sense into her. I figured he would agree with the idea, but he was very wishy-washy and basically declined to comment...but, as in the litter, you could read between the lines.

  I had started the conversation by saying "while I disagree with almost everything the WT teaches..I do think that the org. would be in agreement with me on this issue"...so while we got NOWHERE on the issue I asked him over to talk about, he did ask "what is it that you disagree about with the WT?"

  OK...now I had decided that I was not going to bring all that up in this meeting...but HE ASKED!!

  I held out my hand and started with my index finger..."the false prophecy first off, then the unbiblical requirements on baptism, the blood issue, the way the org is handling is own pedophile issues, and disfelowshiping in general are just a very FEW.

  well here we go!!.....he said " well the society has been known to make mistakes, but that does not make them false prophets"...I said "well no, but as soon as the org makes ANY claim to inspiration it is no longer about "mistakes". He says "well the WT has NEVER made any claims to insperation"..I told him to hold on a moment and went to my desk and brought him this;

  I asked him who HE is in "HE SAYS". The elder replied "well the faithful and discreet slave"..I said "NO..read it again" He then says this is only talking about guidelines for service. I said "I dont care what it's about...if any thing after HE SAYS is not in the bible then it is a claim to direct communication..or inspiration" He then says "well you can have you opinion on that, but I really don't see it that way"...

  now my wife says I get to "radical" when talking about these things. I prefer to think of it as "impassioned"...but nothing get me more when you show some one that the sky is blue.."see look for yourself"..and they still say it's not. We went back and forth on the issue and then touched on some others...I even told him that Russell used pyrimidolagy..(spelling?) to come up with dates. He claimed to know nothing about that so I gave him some of the details...even told him of the pyramid memorial at Russell grave. He asked if I had seen it in person or just from some picture. I said that I did not have to go to MT. Rushmore to know it is there!

  He ended up saying "wow!..I'm used to people having the standard objections...you know like with the trinity issue"...I told him that I have had 10 months and that my research went WAY deeper than that trinity issue. I have scoured the internet, library, newspapers, magazines, and the society's own documents. He said "Ahhh the internet, that explains a few things"...I then said..."do you go to library and believe anything you read there? or do you use your best judgment and sort out the garbage?" he said yea that's how he did it. I told him that when I first went on-line to get info about all this I found a lot of negative things. I told him that I decided that if this org. is really a false prophet it will not be hard to find...if they are not...well then Ill get off there backs. I said that I don't take anything any one person says by face value..I research it out myself to see if it's true. As a result...while yes the "apostate" web pages may direct me to places to look...almost ALL of those places end up to be the watchtowers OWN publications. I asked him "considering that there has been such a HUGE amount of doctrine changes over the past 100yrs, why is there ANY reason that I should trust this as Jehovahs org."?...umm...er...well...ahhhh.... Then I asked "since there is no way I can trust this, I have a very hard time trusting it to my wife". Errr...well...she has to do what is right for her.

  anyway... you all get the gist, he ended up leaving slack jawed with a glazed look and shaking head.

  My wife and I ended up coming to the agreement that she could attend the "thurs" night meeting on another night at another KH. It still galls me though...if we had not found that alternative...she would have made no compromise...oh well, that's what the marriage counseling is for.

  *sorry for any spelling errors*

  FRUSR8TD
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  DakotaRed

  FRUSR8TD, I really feel for you. A lot like beating your head against a brick wall. But, your choices are really limited. Since you sound like someone who really deep down loves his wife, divorce is not a good option and I do hope it doesn't come to that. So, you can endure and try to keep peace, which won't be that easy. Hang in there and treat the wife as kindly as possible and keep seeking viable compromises. Hopefully, she will come to see that she was again duped and will correct herself.

  well the society has been known to make mistakes, but that does not make them false prophets"...

  I really chuckled at this comment. Sort of like saying, "well yes, the Nazis have been known to slaughter millions of people, but that doesn't make them murderers!"

  Hang in there and if you need to vent, feel free to mail me.

  Lew W

  Edited by - DakotaRed on 13 July 2002 14:24:7
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  SYN

  AWWW F8 what a crock!

  Talking to Elders is most of the time pretty much the same as talking to a brick wall! You gave him all these well-thought-out-arguments and he couldn't answer them!

  Be careful, you might be getting a visit from the CO soon!
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  noidea

  {{{FRUSR8TD}}} If I have learned anything about someone wearing rose colored glasses is that they will only choose to see what they want to see. Your wife has as so many have, has succumbed to their scare tactics most likely because they hold the life of your children at stake (hostage). Maybe with some time she will see that all is not as it appears, after all she must have seen it at one time to have stayed away for the time that she did. At this point in wanting to save your marriage all you can do is agree to disagree and try and leave religion out of it or your marriage is doomed for sure. I know it must hurt that she is not willing to make the time to work on things if the meetings are standing in the way, it kind of shows you where you are on her list of priorities. All you can do is tactfully show her what you are learning because pushing the issues with her not being ready to accept will only make matters worse. Another thing that I have learned is that someone will only hear and accept something if that is what they want. Good Luck in the counseling! ~Noi~
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  Amazing

  Ahhhh ... the 1943 Watchtower!!! Its too bad that the Elder did not see the closing words of that article where the Society stated that the words had ' the same binding effect as when God said to the Logos, "Let us make man in our image" '... and preceding this that not to carry out those words was "rank unfaithfulness." ... That article along with the Jan 1959 Watchtower where they say God put his words in their mouths, and the 1971 book, The Nations shall know that I am Jehovah, where they say they are a Prophet Commisioned to Speak in the Divine Name ... Chapter 4 ... they have clearly claimed inspiration.
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  FRUSR8TD

  they have clearly claimed inspiration

  Well Amazeing...we can all see this...but damn I wish they could see that.

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  Be careful, you might be getting a visit from the CO soon!

  HEH..that could prove interesting

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  ~NOI~----Thanks so much for the advice and support...your right about the agree to disagree thing

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  red--I may just take you up on that offer sometime...thanks
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  dmouse

  The following quote is taken from the book The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, 1971, pp. 58,59,61,66,67.

  It is stated quite catagorically that the anointed (or slave class) are commissioned by God to speak as prophets

  *****************************************************************************************************************************

  Who, then, are the group of persons who, toward the beginning of this "time of the end," were commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah?.... Whom could the real "chariot" of Jehovah's organization roll up to and confront that He might bestow upon this qualified one the commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah?.... Jehovah has found and commissioned his modern-day "Ezekiel." It is a composite Ezekiel. It is composed of those dedicated, baptized proclaimers of God's kingdom, who have been anointed with His spirit for their work.... Jehovah commissioned this dedicated, baptized, anointed class of servants to speak to all the nations in His name.... So it was with the anointed, dedicated witnesses of Jehovah back there in the year 1919 C.E. The facts from then on down to this date prove that they received their ordination and appointment and commission for their work in this "time of the end" from Jehovah himself.
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  Stealth

  AND THE LORD SAID:

  And for company publishers he says, 'Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study a week for each publisher.' These directions come to us from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us;

  Today I think the Lord's quota is something like 10 hours.

  The Lord is such a slacker these days!

  Edited by - stealth on 13 July 2002 16:43:29

  Edited by - stealth on 13 July 2002 16:44:53
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  ISP

  Hey go easy......that was a 1943 WT. I think the same year that they realised JC came in 1914 and not 1878....I think. So there was a lot going on!

  ISP
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  DanTheMan

  FRUSR8TD:

  I feel your pain. I am so sorry to hear about your situation with your wife.

  Cult involvement works much along the same lines as an abusive relationship. When Tina was with Ike, you could have tried to reason all day long with her to try to convince her that he was bad news, but she had to figure it out for herself. As long as they are under the spell of the leadership, there just isn't a whole lot you can say.

  Although I haven't read it, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" I hear is a very good book that doesn't mention JW's directly. Maybe it would open her eyes to the situation she's in, if she'd be willing to read it.