JESUS NOT THE MEDIATOR? (page 3)

FreeFallin

*** Watchtower 1991 February 15 pp.15-20 "You Were Bought With a Price" ***

8 Hence, the ransom sacrifice is fundamental to the new covenant, of which Jesus is the Mediator. Paul wrote: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all-this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times." (1 Timothy 2:5, 6) Those words especially apply to the 144,000, with whom the new covenant is made.

[...]

11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom. Christ still acts toward them, however, as High Priest, through whom Jehovah can and does apply the ransom to the extent of their now being declared righteous as God's friends. (Compare James 2:23.) During the Millennium, they will gradually "be set free from enslavement to corruption [until finally they] have the glorious freedom of the children of God."-Romans 8:21.

Go to quotes at the bottom of this page and check out Mediator, there's lots more stuff on it.

F.

Makena1

Freefallin' - thanks for the WT quote. As I guessed, it came out during the busiest year of my life (to date anyway!)

all best,

Mak

neyank

The WTS saying that Jesus isn't the mediator for the great crowd
goes along with them saying the Bible wasn't written for everyone.

Only the FDS class.

In both instanses, the WTS has no proof for such claims.

neyank

Mary

FredHall said: "Answer these questions. What Covenant Jesus is the Mediator of ? And who is under this covenant? Who benefit from it?..."

Um, the scripture in question says NOTHING about a "covenant", Fred, or is English your second language and you can't comprehend this? It says "There is one Mediator between God and MEN, a man Jesus Christ." It doesn't say He's the mediator for only "some men" or "those in a Covenant", it simple says "MEN"......that goes along with the teaching that Jesus died for ALL mankind, not just for a select few intent on tooting their own horn while continuously trying to keep that foot on 6,000,000 necks........

dungbeetle

Watchtower 4/1/87

As the Mediator between Jehovah God and those who have been taken into the new covenant, he has been serving indeed as a wonderful counselor for these past 19 centuries. Now, since 1935, "a great crowd" of his "other sheep" has been taking in his wonderful counsel and is getting the finest instruction and guidance

WT 4/1/81

Why is that true? It is because the Founder of the celebration set it up for observance by those with whom he made a covenant for the heavenly kingdom. Although dedicated and baptized, those of the "great crowd" recognize that they have not been taken into that covenant for the Kingdom. They are not spiritual Israelites, forasmuch as they have not been taken into the "new covenant," which is made with spiritual Israelites through the Mediator Jesus Christ

WT 4/1/79

The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The "great crowd" of "other sheep" that is forming today is not in that new covenant

WT 4/1/73

As Mediator, Christ also helps those in the new covenant to fulfill its terms and to qualify to be kings and priests with him. However, not all attending this memorial observance are partakers of the emblems served. However.Jesus said: "I have other sheep, which are not of this fold [of the "little flock"]; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16) They would support the stand the anointed ones have taken and would cooperate in preaching the good news to others. But God has not held out the heavenly invitation to them,

The Watchtowers of 2/15/66 and 11/15/72 give the direct impression that Jesus is mediator for all.

So, it appears from the pages of the Watchtower the change took place ON paper in 1972/1973.

This is what it says in Crises of Conscience (1999 edition, pages 270-271)

(November 16, 1979), the Societys president, Fred Franz, was presiding at the morning Bible text discussionhe stated that some were questioning the Societys position (set forth in a recent Watchtower) that Jesus Christ is the mediator only for the "anointed" ones and not for the other millions of Jehovahs Witnesses. He said of such ones: "They would merge everyone together and make Jesus Christ the mediator for every Tom, Dick, and Harry."

for me it was evident from Scripture that Jesus Christ did ofer his mediation to bring about reconciliation with God for every Tom, Dick, and Harry

Thanks Ray Franz!!!!!!!

Makena1

Dungbeetle - thanks for the extra WT quotes from years prior to 1991. I am truly humbled and amazed that I missed this "teaching" as it was subtly (sp?) slipped in.

I wish some householder (perhaps an ex-JW) had hit me with this from door to door years ago. I would have really looked foolish denying that the WT said this, but perhaps would have started questioning this and other teachings a lot sooner!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sluffed off the 1975 thing as an exercise in being overly zealous in wanting to be ready for the GT, but putting a different spin on Christ's ransom and mediatorship would have been HUGE for me. Doh!

Mak

knocking my head on my desk

FreeFallin

Dungbeetle, thanks for the extra quotes.

I know this discussion is probably over, but this has been bothering me all day and I have to get it out of my system. I vaguely remember reading the change in mediatorship before, but it never really made any impression on me. I just felt "they knew what they were doing, they were God's chanel, not me, so shut up and enjoy the ride." Now it's a different story.

The word arrogance is used alot on this board, in reference to the Society. Now I understand. It is Blasphemous Arrogance. How dare they put themselves in the position of our Lord and Savior? How dare they take away a relationship that is between Jesus and us? Is this the unforgivable sin?

FreeFallin

dungbeetle

I think it is a given that JW"s in general are a very depressed lot. I don't mean to be practicing medicine without a license here, but honestly, anyone is capable of noting the most observable signs and symtoms of depression and it is hard to find a JW that does not have these signs and symptoms, especially the women and the children.

People experiencing the SIGNS and SYMPTOMS of depression are very vulnerable. It is also the reason you can't just TALK THEM OUT of their religion in twenty minutes. You can't talk a person experiencing depressive symptoms out of ANYTHING in that manner. And persons experiencing depression don't always notice things, they are too busy mentally survivng from day to day.

FreeFallin

Amen to that, DBeetle. And I have the Paxil and Welbutrin as testimony. Since I'll probably never see any one here face to face, I can admit it.

Free

dungbeetle

Why is that?

JESUS NOT THE MEDIATOR?

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