by Mary 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • Mary

    Guess I hadn't been paying "close attention" at the meetings a few years ago......apparently, Jesus is NOT the Mediator between God and men like the bible says, he's only the Mediator between the 144,000 and Jehovah - I guess the rest of us can go straight to Hell in a handbasket......

    How long has this bizarre theory been around??!! I was absolutely stunned to hear this one, as I had never heard it before. And how did they ever come up with this one??

  • Valis

    Something to add to the thought..edited to add I don't espouse the last or the first bit of Christiness, just posted this to throw another view into the mix.


    District Overbeer

    Edited by - Valis on 12 July 2002 14:29:52

  • Gopher

    Mary, it's been that way for many years. I remember answering differently -- because according to my "face value" reading of that scripture, it sure does seem like Jesus would be the mediator between all of us and God! (An elder "corrected" my so-called error.)

    But the JW's teach NOT, instead he is the mediator of the kingdom covenant, so only those in the heavenly class who inherit that kingdom receive the direct mediation. The rest of us peons receive "indirect" benefits because the heavenly class is so dang faithful!!

    But -- if Christ isn't my mediator, then how could I pray to God "in his name"?? It puzzles me.

  • Fredhall


    Answer these questions. What Covenant Jesus is the Mediator of ? And who is under this covenant? Who benefit from it?

  • borgfree

    I don't know when they started that teaching Mary, but it has been like, secret teaching, for a long time. (many years)

    Also, I was counseled once, about 25 years ago, for addressing Jehovah as Father in my cong. prayer. I was told He was not Father to the "Great Crowd".


  • Gopher


    Dang! You've GOT to be kidding!

    Didn't Jesus say , "You MUST pray then, this way, our Father in heavens.... ", etc. ????

    I take it the "brother" who "counselled" you maybe didn't like you very much?

    Too many human opinions and too much arrogance floats around in those Kingdom Halls.

  • blondie

    Moses = Jesus (both mediators)

    Law Covenant = New Covenant

    Israelites = Spiritual Israelites

    So WTS says no room for non-Israelites. Covenant for a kingdom--GC are not going to rule in heaven with Jesus.

    Jesus is still considered the Ransomer for both groups and both must pray through Jesus to be heard by God.

    I guess that is where the confusion comes, if all must pray through Jesus and he is the ransomer for all, why is he not mediator for all.

    Basically, they are saying the 144,000 are special and better than anyone else so JWs have to listen to the remnant of them still on earth as if it were straight from God.

  • JanH

    This has actually been a quite consistent, if not widely known (among jws!) teaching of the WTS. There is a kind of shadow theology behind this, where the 144K aka the "remnant" aka (de facto) the Governing Body, is the real mediator between the "great crowd" and Jesus. Thus, the GB is solidly placed as as a necessary link between the rank & file and God.

    - Jan

  • Dutchie

    Blondie, and since the Governing Body is part of the remnant class, then everything they say comes straight from god.

    They've got it all covered!

  • joannadandy

    Holy crap, count me among the uninformed, I NEVER heard this before. In fact I recall giving a talk that said that Jesus was the mediator between God and Man--and I pretty much copied the information out of the Inspired book. They never set me straight on that, are we sure this is something they teach? Or is it so damn secret no one in my congregation corrected me cuz they didn't know? Or was everyone sleeping during my talk?

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