The Case for Theism

by FusionTheism 182 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  freemindfade

  Five book were written by a goat herder, about he previous few thousand years... then lost... then miraculously found by Josiah many years later, look at that, and its rewritten and the original copies are lost to history (almost seems like the whole thing could have been made up or borrowed from much older foundation myths), all down through history this library gets written lost, found again rewritten, parts taken out other left in, and manipulated to fit political agendas of the time...

  Why isn't that enough proof of God for you Fusion??? Seems pretty sound to me. Why do you have to get nasty ol' science involved.
• 

  FusionTheism

  Viviane,

  A couple more Stephen Hawking quotes:

  "The discovery recently of the extreme fine-tuning of so many laws of nature could lead some to the idea that this grand design has a Grand Designer…True, the laws of the universe seem tailor made for humans."

  
  "The no boundary condition, is the statement that the laws of physics hold everywhere. Clearly, this is something that one would like to believe, but it is a hypothesis. One has to test it, by comparing the state of the universe that it would predict, with observations of what the universe is actually like. If the observations disagreed with the predictions of the no boundary hypothesis, we would have to conclude the hypothesis was false.

  ****There would have to be something outside the universe, to wind up the clockwork, and set the universe going.****

  Of course, even if the observations do agree with the predictions, that does not prove that the no boundary proposal is correct. But one's confidence in it would be increased, particularly because there doesn't seem to be any other natural proposal, for the quantum state of the universe."
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  Jonathan Drake

  "All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology."

  "Another attempt to avoid a beginning to time, was the suggestion, that maybe all the galaxies didn't meet up at a single point in the past. [...] However, their claim was proved wrong, by a number of theorems by Roger Penrose and myself."

  "If one can determine that there is enough matter in the universe, to focus our past light cone, one can then apply the singularity theorems, to show that time must have a beginning. [...]"

  "One can then apply the theorem of Penrose and myself, to show that time must have a beginning."

  If I'm not mistaken, I believe you have just created a straw man out of Steven hawkings lecture "the beginning of time". It seems to me you are trying to make the beginning of time have something to do with God, and it absolutely doesn't.

  
  Did you copy and paste from this lecture?
• 

  FusionTheism

  Freemindfade,

  It's a logical fallacy to reject someone's argument because they are a goat herder (or any other occupation).

  It's also the logical fallacy known as "Chronological Snobbery" to reject something because it is old.
• 

  FusionTheism

  Jonathan Drake,

  Stephen Hawking himself declares that if "Imaginary Time" ends up being false that means...

  "There would have to be something outside the universe, to wind up the clockwork, and set the universe going."
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  Viviane

  Just opened my browser after being out for a few hours. Saw this thread title and then three little Viviane avatars on the right - I just burst out laughing, knowing opening the thread would see the OP ripped to shreds.

  I'm feeling a bit saucy today :)
  
• 

  Doltologist

  Fusion

  I read your tedious shyte.

  I am responding to some, though not all because, in all honesty, I can't be bothered and your tedious shyte isn't worth the efort but here goes.

  1. Time is part of the space-time continuum. Time only exists if space does and vice versa. After big bang, the physical laws in the resulting universe demanded that an effect resulted from a cause. Before big bang, we can make no such assumptions since time nor space existed. Therefore, it is entirely possible that an effect could preceed a cause or in fact there was no connection between cause and effect.

  Basically, you assume that the same laws applied pre-big bang as applied post big bang which may not be the case.

  Please see the experiments conducted at MIT where a vessel was evacuated of all matter and elemental particles were seen to be created spontaneously without the aid of a supernatural being.

  2) There are billions of solar systems in this universe. It would be staggering if at least one were not fine tuned for life, purely on the basis of randomness and probability. In fact, in all probability, there are many solar systems in the universe that are fine tuned for life.

  3) Science has never observed life spontaneously developing. This is true. However, it doesn't mean that it isn't happening. Oh, and by the way, have you ever seen your precious god?

  I really can't be bothered answering any others. It's just far too tedious.
  
  
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  Jonathan Drake

  Fusion I do know how to use a dictionary, and your definition from your source states that theism is a belief in an immanent God. Immanent means that the God is inherent in and has something to do with the world.

  1

  :indwelling, inherent <beauty is not something imposed but something immanent — Anthony Burgess>

  
  

  Theism is the belief in a God that transcends our world but is still immanent (has something to do with) our world. Deism is the belief in a God that transcends our world and has nothing to do with it.
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  Viviane

  Viviane,
  A couple more Stephen Hawking quotes:

  Yes, and none of that supports your false claim.
• 

  FusionTheism

  This website has a huge case of Throwing the Baby Out with the Bathwater