The Case for Theism

by FusionTheism 182 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    10:) The Bible accurately declared advanced scientific knowledge, such as:
    (a): The earth is suspended in empty space. (Job 26:7)
    (b): The earth is spherical. (Isaiah 40:22)
    (c): There are "springs" on the ocean floor. (Job 38:16; Genesis 7:11; Proverbs 8:28)
    (d): You must quarantine sick people. (Leviticus 13:4, 46; Leviticus 14:8; Numbers 5:2; 2 Kings 15:5)

    The earth is not suspended in space, the earth is not spherical, Job says nothing about the ocean floor, there are no fountains on the ocean floor and quarantining sick people is just common sense, not special divine knowledge.

    None of your claims are true, therefore any conclusion based on them is useless.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Yawn.... Sigh...
  • Viviane
    Viviane
    No one has ever naturally predicted the future with any accuracy. This points to something beyond nature with foreknowledge.

    Yes they have, so, no, it doesn't.

    Specifically, in comic books.

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18836_6-eerily-specific-world-events-predicted-by-comics.html

  • FusionTheism
    FusionTheism

    Poor Viviane, looks like I'm actually going to have to provide the direct quotations from Stephen Hawking's webpage...

    "All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology."

    "Another attempt to avoid a beginning to time, was the suggestion, that maybe all the galaxies didn't meet up at a single point in the past. [...] However, their claim was proved wrong, by a number of theorems by Roger Penrose and myself."

    "If one can determine that there is enough matter in the universe, to focus our past light cone, one can then apply the singularity theorems, to show that time must have a beginning. [...]"

    "One can then apply the theorem of Penrose and myself, to show that time must have a beginning."


  • freemindfade
    freemindfade

    Also lack of belief in god/intelligent design, is not a clam that they don't exist. Shit some people claim we were put here by aliens, or that we live in something like the matrix, where reality is like a computer program, or that everything is really a hologram, or on and on and on and on.....

    Big deal, where is the solid evidence to any of it? You haven't provided any Fusion. There are all sorts of fantastic ideas as to what it all means, and how it all got here, the sad thing is that some of these outlandish things have more evidence to their probability than YHWH!!!

    Instead of coming up with an end BELIEF, then trying to make any plausible possibility fit into that believe why don't you start at the other side, what does evidence show without any preconceived idea.

    Here is something of value from Hawking FusionTheism

    “When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them that the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It’s like asking directions to the edge of the earth; The Earth is a sphere; it doesn’t have an edge; so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and it’s my view that the simplest explanation is; there is no god. No one created our universe,and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization; There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that I am extremely grateful.”

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Just opened my browser after being out for a few hours. Saw this thread title and then three little Viviane avatars on the right - I just burst out laughing, knowing opening the thread would see the OP ripped to shreds.

    And so it came to pass....

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake
    "Theism" here means "belief in a god" or "the worldview that an intelligent designer created the universe and life." ("God" here means a being with a mind who initiated and/or wound-up the universe, and designed life on earth)

    You can't just change the definition of theism to fit your own ends.

    theism isn't merely the belief in a god, it's the belief in a God that interacts and takes an interest in our world. conversely, deism is the belief in a God that does not take an interest or interact.

    As to your assertions about the accuracy of prophecy regarding Jesus, you are not providing any of the following:

    1. Proof Jesus ever having lived to begin with.

    2. Explanation for why the gospel accounts contradict one another.

    3. Explanation of why no historians of the time reported any of the crucifixion miracles (earthquake, darkening of sky, resurrection of saints upon Jesus death - seriously no one else but a bible writer can confirm this?)

    4. Explanation of why the writers of the gospels took so long to write down their contradicting stories about a man who probably never lived after it all supposedly happened.

    What's more, you're falling into the rut of using the bible to prove itself by using scripture from Daniel. This proves nothing but the probability that the reason the bible writers took so long to write the gospels is because they had to tailor them to fit. <--- something many agree is more and more likely as time goes on.

  • FusionTheism
    FusionTheism

    Jonathan Drake,

    I like to use dictionaries, I'm not sure what you use?

    Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

    belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically :belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

    American Heritage Dictionary:

    • n.
      Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    I am pretty sure Fusion that I asked you on a previous thread to point to one example of where the Bible has actually added something to the body of scientific knowledge?

    Is it possible to do so?

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    "All the evidence seems to indicate, that the universe has not existed forever, but that it had a beginning, about 15 billion years ago. This is probably the most remarkable discovery of modern cosmology."

    Yep, that's exactly what that specific quote out of a lecture from says. I've read that lecture many times. It doesn't say what your claims are. It's very easy to take an old quote out of context and make incorrect claims about it. It's much harder to stay up to date and understand nuance.

    Sorry. Words are hard. Here's another quote for you...

    Quantum theory introduces a new idea, that of imaginary time. Imaginary time may sound like science fiction, and it has been brought into Doctor Who [an English Star Trek]. But never the less, it is a genuine scientific concept. One can picture it in the following way. One can think of ordinary, real, time as a horizontal line. On the left, one has the past, and on the right, the future. But there's another kind of time in the vertical direction. This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real, as what we call real time.

    And another...

    The beginning of real time, would have been a singularity, at which the laws of physics would have broken down. Nevertheless, the way the universe began, would have been determined by the laws of physics, if the universe satisfied the no boundary condition. This says that in the imaginary time direction, spacetime is finite in extent, but doesn't have any boundary or edge.

    And another...

    The no boundary proposal, predicts that the universe would start at a single point, like the north pole of the Earth. But this point wouldn't be a singularity, like the Big Bang. Instead, it would be an ordinary point of space and time, like the north pole is an ordinary point on the Earth, or so I'm told. I have not been there myself.



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