The Talmud: Origin of the Watchtower??

by KJV 7 Replies latest jw friends

  • KJV
    KJV

    When I first got on H20 a couple of years ago, someone made the comment that Jehovah's witnesses was "Judaism with a little Christianity and a dash of Freemasonary". I think that is very good observation, and since then I have been studying Judaism to get a little insight on the origins of the Watchtower. I am not talking about the Jews as a "race", I am talking about the Jewish religion. Pick up any Watchtower and you will notice that the Society quotes the Hebrew Bible many more times than they quote the Christian Bible.
    We worshipped the Jewish G-d "Yahweh" and we got offended when anyone put too much emphasis on Jesus. And we got the judgemental attitude from Judaism. From Judaism? Yes. Have you ever read the "Talmud"? It reads like a Watchtower written by Fred Franz when he was having his hemmoroids cut out.

    The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book(actually a collection of books). Its authority takes precedence over the Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself, Erubin 21b(Soncino edition):"My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah(Old Testament)".

    The Jewish Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus time. Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah(early Talmud) and those who taught it(Scribes and Pharisees), because the Talmud nullifies the teachings of the Holy Bible.

    Well, what does the Talmud teach? You know what happens to a witness who disobeys an elder, right? Look what happens to a Jew who disobeys a rabbi. At Eurbin 21b it states:"Whoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in Hell".

    At Sanhedrin 58b it says:"If a heathen(Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed."
    Remember, Jesus said to turn the other cheek!

    It says at Sanhedrin 57a that " a Jew need not pay a Gentile(Cuthean) the wages owed him for work.

    Check out what it says at Yebamoth 98a:"All Gentile children are animals".

    Abodah Zarah 36b.:"Gentile girls are in a state of "niddah"(filth) from birth".

    Abodah Zarah 22a-22b.:"Gentiles prefer sex with cows".

    I have never had sex with a cow.

    Gittin 57a says: "Jesus is in Hell, being boiled in 'hot excrement'".

    Do you wonder where the Watchtower got it's policy on pedophiles?
    Sanhedrin 54b states:"A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old."

    Kethuboth 11b says:"When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

    Sanhedrin 55b also says that:"A Jew may marry a three year old girl(specifically, three years "and a day" old).

    Yebamoth 63a plainly states that:"Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden".
    No wonder Fred Franz had nothing against bestiality!

    Another real zinger is at Yebamoth 59b:"A woman who had intercource with a beast is eligible to marry a priest. A woman who has had sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest."

    My favorite? Menahoth 43b-44a:"A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or slave."

    You gotta love that Talmud!!

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi KJV: Your quote of someone from H20 sounds like something I could have said, my style anyway.

    On another forum, I got into a serious clash with an x-JW who became a Jew, because I referred to the Talmud as weird. He took great offense, and it took several posted threads to iron things out. I think the real offense was not about the Talmud, but about his underlying political disagreements with me.

    I did end with quoting from the Babylonian Talmud, which is the largest and most recognized version of the Talmud. I quoted material similar to what you did, except I confined it to how the Talmud belittles Jesus Christ. (The Talmud continued to be developed long after Jesus death).

    The other poster claimed that I knew nothing of the Talmud and that the Talmid was a good book, unlike anything I claimed. I asked the other poster to at least address "one" of the short 12 verses I quoted ... he suddenly was to busy, and never did respond ... he could make long posts to others, but somehow work issues made it too difficult to respond to even "one" verse that I quoted.

    He failed to understand that part of my family is Jewish, and I am familiar with the religion in many ways. The Talmud is more of an ongoing theological record of debate ... it is really not a law ... and most Jews I know today have not fully read the Talmud, or they do not accept its statements entirely ... much like man Christians question and doubt many parts of the New Testament.

    Thanks for bringing those quotes out into the open ... I personally believe that the Talmud is far more valueable in exposing the views of almost any religious people - all concentrated into one book - a type of social example of what can happen to people who think that they are God's exclusive and chosen people.

    I love Jewish culture and ritual ... when sharing in Sabbath with my Brother-in-Law, I love the candle lighting, the prayers sung in Yiddish, and the red wine with the waving of the smoke from the candles ... the Sabbath bread ... and I love meeting with Jews for open discussion ... these guys are not afraid to ponder alomst anything the brain can fathom ... like JWD with a twist of lime and a dash of sugar.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    You gotta love that Talmud!!

    According to 2 Timothy 3:16, isn't the Talmud inspired of God?

    --
    Bad times, hard times - this is what people keep saying; but let us live well, and times shall be good. We are the times: Such as we are, such are the times. - St. Augustine, 354-430

  • KJV
    KJV

    Hello Amazing!

    I hope you are feeling great! Thanks for sharing your frightening experience with us, it scared the Hell out of me. I need to lose about forty pounds and I have high blood pressure, which I take meds for. But I am sure your detailed account of what you had to go through has given many on this board reason to change his/her lifestyle!

    I think it was you that made the comment that Jehovah's witnesses was Judaism with a little Christianity and a dash of Freemasonary. The more I read the old and new Watchtowers, it is obvious that nothing could be further from the truth. We were Jews! HA!HA!

    I took this topic to a Jewish vs. Muslim forum and all Hell broke out. Most of the Jews became very angry with me and called me a "beer guzzling trailer trash Nazi". They told me that only qualified Jewish scholars can read the Talmud. I told them I agree if they don't want to piss of the non-Jews! One polite Jewish gentleman explained that the Jews observe a "newer" and "kinder" Talmud, that Jews do not practise what I just quoted here. But the fact that this kind of crap is taught in any religion should give others concern. This is truly racism, and is also the propaganda that has given a "green light" to Zionism. But trust me...I would rather sit next to a Jew rather than a Muslim on an airplane any day. The question is whether the Jew would want to sit next to me!! :D

  • KJV
    KJV

    Hi funkyderek,

    You asked:"According to 2Timothy 3:16, isn't the Talmud inspired of God?"

    If it is...we are in all serious trouble!! Actually, some translations read "All Scripture that IS inspired..."
    The Talmud was the Jewish oral traditions that the Scribes and Pharisees were enforcing on the Jews. The Jews wrote down these traditions around the 5th century AD. Given that Jesus condemned these teachings, I doubt that they were inspired of G-d! But I find it hard to believe that any of the Bible is inspired of G-d.

  • DevonMcBride
    DevonMcBride

    KJV,

    I thought you might find these sites helpful in your research.

    http://www.jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm
    http://home.att.net/~fiddlerzvi/j4j_no.html

    Devon

  • JanH
    JanH

    It is important to note that much of the Talmudic writings are in the form of dialogue or discussions. Typically debates go through some extremities and then converges on some conclusion in the middle. It is thus very easy to quote one of the extreme parts, and misrepresent it as some official position of Judaism. I know that certian neo-nazis practicies this art of misquotation.

    I don't know it that is the case with any of the quotations referred to here, but it is worth knowing. Unless you have read it in context yourself, you risk misrepresenting the Talmud.

    - Jan
    --
    - "How do you write women so well?" - "I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability." (Jack Nicholson in "As Good as it Gets")

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Concuring with what JanH just wrote, if you read all of Sanhedrian 54b you find that pedophilia is a stoning offense. The quote given above is not directly used either.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit