One month researching my doubts: my crucial issues with WTBTS - what are yours?

by Tornintwo 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • The Governor
    The Governor

    Not ever being a Witness but a Bible study I developed a lot of issues with how things were practiced and ran. I could probably make a list to the moon and back but I will mention a few specific things that are currently bugging me. A lot of the things did upset me when I was studying. I will try and list them in order; so here I go!

    1: The Governing Body speak for Jehovah. What ever the Governing Body displays in their literature or what ever you here from the platform, do not think of it as coming from men, but coming from Jehovah: This was a big issue for me. At the time not one individual could name all 7 Governing Body members. Not one.I couldn't understand how a huge group of individuals could trust their lives with 7 men and not even know their names. Once I started learning their names I soon learned to look at them as individuals and not as a "group" making up the Governing Body. I also couldn't understand why it was required to give my strict devotion and obedience to these men. In the publications it seemed like it was mentioned twice as much to be obedient to the Governing Body rather then being obedient to Christ. Many Witness claimed to agree with every word and statement the Governing Body made. It seemed like they didn't have one opposing thought in their mind. To me, this screamed of blind obedience. The Governing Body says and the Witnesses do! I did not like this system at all and complained a lot about it. I failed to see how these 7 men were some how had more spiritual insight then the average Witness. How come they can preach through Jehovah's voice but the rest of the 8 million Witness (who are literally no different) can't? Out of all my issues, blind obedience and devotion to 7 men over obedience and devotion to your friends, spouse and family including children ranks number 1!

    2: TRUTH (subject to change): Do Jehovah's Witnesses these days obediently adhere to the resurrection of the faithful men or old? Do they strictly believe that Jesus came invisibly in 1874 and started ruling in 1878? What about taking a stance against vaccines and organ transplants? Nope! Not any longer. All these core teachings that Witness once stood by have changed and many don't show up in their current publications. When I was studying I was told they "had the truth" but could not understand how almost every layer of truth can be demolished and replaced in a matter of one day. For example I had a HUGE issues with the Kingdom Ministry not being available to my disfellowshipped partner.I also did not like how it wasn't available to Bible Study's. It really bothered me that they were withholding this so called "truth" from everyone that wasn't them. It always bothered me when the Kingdom Ministry study came to be and I couldn't follow along. It made me feel like the pink elephant in the room and didn't withhold my opinions about this issue. I was told that this is how Jehovah runs things and that it's a loving provision and that I will come to accept it one day with more learning. Then BAM! One day the Kingdom Ministry became available to all! So long story short, how Jehovah runs things is completely subject to change. This also includes the blood issue and all the deaths surrounding it. You can now intake blood fractions to save your life but back before this change many died refusing any sort of fraction because "Jehovah" didn't run things in the way back then. Doctrine being subject to change shouldn't involve life and death for many based on when this change takes place and by whom this change takes place. Jehovah doesn't dictate these changes. It's those 7 men in New York that do! I couldn't subject my beliefs to be ever changing. What I was learning I wanted to dedicate too and I realized since anything I learned was subject to change, I couldn't do that.

    3: Protecting abusers and blaming the victims: My ex Jehovah's Witness partner told me a story about how their sister got married within the "truth." A nice respected Jehovah's Witnesses. On their honeymoon this Witness who she married ended up beating her so badly that she ended up hospitalized. This man who beat his wife was not disfellowshipped and was reproved for the reason that "beating a woman was not against God's moral law." WHAT???? This story was actually supposed to convince me that the organization had moral standards that exceeded the standards or "the world." This was my ex-partners sister and my partner was supporting the organizations decision to reprove this man and allowing him to be around other woman and is actually scripturaly free to re-marry within the congregation! This man that beat his own sister potentially almost to death! That was a huge moment for me when I knew something wasn't right. When I found out about the Jose Lopez case I was absolutely furious with the lack of sympathy the Watchtower showed towards this victim of abuse. Being molested when I was younger I was very angry with the disrespect they showed Jose Lopez. After many years of loyal service, even though he wasn't a Witness the Watchtower gave him no support...at all! They didn't show one ounce of sympathy for him being molested because at the time, their policy allowed it. Having seen what Losch stated about his loyalty to the Watchtower to the courts as his reasons for NOT showing up to defend the Watchtowers policy's and practices absolutely baffled me! "I do not answer to Watchtower and Watchtower does not have, and has never had any authority over me." This statement and his lack of working with the courts to defend God's organization...or the lack of defending this organization at all showed me that each and every member is expendable. The Watchtower will never be there for those abused by it's policy. It will never be there for those currently being abused by it's current policy. The individuals don't matter to the organization. The only thing that matters to the individuals loyal service to them!

    4: The love of money!: Watching JW broadcasting I can see that the organization has a love for money or valuable things. There is no limit to what this organization will ask for from it's members.Some of these valuable things include pension plans, retirement funds, jewelry, life savings or everything you own be directed to the organization in your written Will. The Governing Body recently cancelled everyone's loans. Sounds wonderful doesn't it? What the Witnesses do not know is that the same amount they were paying back in debt that had an end period when it's fully paid STILL has to be paid to the organization except with no expiry date. If a hall had only $500 left to pay back until their loan was fully paid and after that monthly payment would of been loan free that last bit of loan is now cancelled but that hall is now expected to pay that same amount of $500 a month with no fix end date. This is deception right there! This is making a scam aiming to grab more money from Witnesses seem like it's doing the complete opposite in public. The love for money has taken over the Watchtowers love for truth and honesty. They say the route of all evil, is the love of money. Now outright soliciting is being featured in JW Broadcasting and this soliciting is even being incorporated in the "Become Jehovah's Friend" series aimed at children. I was told as a Bible study that the organization has NEVER solicited for money and funds or "valuable things." Of course, like almost every teaching and doctrine to be proud of, it is subject to change!

    5: Disfellowshipping: Disfellowshipping was a big issue for me. Going to the hall with my disfellowshipped partner and to see the humiliation that had to be taken place in the name of love was down right disturbing. I discussed with an Elder once as he was asking where my disfellowshipped partner was during the socializing part at the beginning of the meetings. I told him my partner was in the car and this elder replied "Well that's where they should be." Nothing can come close to explaining how offended I was at this elders statement. To learn that my partner was shunned by their mother up until her death bed disturbed me. To see this shunning take place hurt me every single day. To treat people like this was unacceptable to me! Again I was told to accept this being apart of Jehovah's "high moral standards." How can a practice that has caused so much depression, anxiety, PTSD and even ending in suicide be loving? How is separating a mother from her child a loving thing? This practice also breaks the human right of being able to join or leave your religion without punishment! This practice breaks up families, destroys lives (literally) and denies you your basic human rights. This is not what love is. Love does not tare a mother away from her child. Someone who preforms an act of love towards you should not make you want to take your own life! There is no way removing your humans rights can be done in the name of love! All these things are done in the name of suppression. All disfellowshipping is meant for is to keep those still in, obedient and in line! It's a way to control YOU! If your spouse forbid you to speak to your mother or father, took away your human right to believe what you wanted and caused so much grief that you ended up taking your own life would your relationship in turn be classified as a loving relationship? You better think hard about that answer because that's exactly the relationship the Watchtower has with every single member within it's ranks! .

  • FWFranz
    FWFranz

    Hi Tornintwo

    For such a short time, I think you've made a very good list. All of those things are quite disturbing for sure, but I would say that the number of mishandled child abuse cases is the most shocking information, and it does prove that you will "know them by their fruits".

    I realised many years ago that there were several questionable doctrines that are still taught by the WTS. The "invisible parousia" can easily be dismantled by a closer look at scripture. The teaching that the first resurrection has already begun is another one that doesn't take much to disprove. There are many others that fall upon careful investigation. I am sure you will find these with some homework. I am happy to hear that this great disappointment hasn't shattered your faith in God and his Son. There are other non trinitarian fellowships out there that one can explore. As others have advised I would suggest that you do additional research and take everything very slowly and prayerfully.

    FWFranz

  • Tornintwo
    Tornintwo

    Hi The Governor, thanks so much for your list, very clear and though out points which are thought-provoking, well done you for seeing all this before committing yourself by baptism, plenty of people on here wishing they'd been as asute. I can feel your emotion regarding the whole disfellowshipping issue, such a lack of love or justice in that whole process and I'm sorry it's hurt your family, I'm absolutely convinced that's not what Jesus wanted. I'm still researching ( when I can amongst work/family stuff) but I afraid I've 'taken the red pill, the genies out of the bottle, the cats out of the bag'....

    my family situation is a bit complicated so I can't just walk away right now, but Iike others on here have said, it's mentally liberating to acknowledge your doubts and to know you don't have to accept or excuse the b.s. In this religion anymore, plus any guilt about 'not doing more' has almost disappeared. It's painful but it's also pretty nice to be awake!

    Thank you also Franz, there is much research to do (amidst work/family stuff) so it might take years, I'm impatient but I've really taken to heart the advice from you and others to take things slow, I need it. What's great is that I will now allow myself to do the research, I've broken free of those mental controls and I hope many more will do that too, how foolish we were to allow men to decide for us what we should and shouldn't think.

  • Introvert 2
    Introvert 2

    Good thread T.I.T. subscribed, agree on most points. But I still wouldn't get a blood transfusion nor celebrate holidays, they are just so commercial and steeped in paganism. Birthdays I'm on the fence, if I had a family maybe but being single lots of these issues are made easier for me to avoid. My heart goes out to those raising a family and having to deal with all these issues, must be hard. I wouldn't want to have to teach the WT version of truth to my kids if I had any. Stick with the Bible plain and simple.

    This is great I always felt the same and could just tell when a zealous JW elder knew it :

    "What's great is that I will now allow myself to do the research, I've broken free of those mental controls and I hope many more will do that too, how foolish we were to allow men to decide for us what we should and shouldn't think "

    I keep such one at arms length now.

  • Introvert 2
    Introvert 2
    Oh and read COC if you haven't already ! Ed Dunlap and Ray Franz were good guys !
  • Lieu
    Lieu

    1. They kicked Jesus completely out and replaced him with some guys I know nothing about. Kinda like the Wizard of Oz deal. They tell the majority that christ is simply not for them. [Christ is simply not important in the JW world; his role is completely disrespected and ignored.] I do believe that is part of the definition of anti-Christ.

    2. I hated the application of half a scripture, taken completely out of context, to support JW policy.

    3. JW Governing body's claimed 'holy spirit' is fickle and can't make up its mind about what is right or true. Peanut butter could be good this week and bad the next.

    4. Calling people by their last names in a familiar setting is condescending. It's not done, in the Bible, unless several people have the same first name (ex. Mary) or in the case of the traitor Judas Iscariot.

    5. Jesus never used God's name. It's vain to use it for your religion when Christ himself did not.

    6. Who's to say Abraham, God's friend, won't go to heaven? Dumb.

  • FayeDunaway
    FayeDunaway
    Lieu, I don't know who you are, but you and I are kindred spirits!
  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    Thank you for your contribution. Interesting reading and many thoughtful thoughts. Every one of you seems to have “Christian basic” thoughts, and that the Bible, if correct translated, and or interpreted must be “the wholly word” from God. So does many other religions, but they don’t accept the Bible. They are using other “religious” literature to support their believing’s. But actually very few of us does by ourselves understand what is written in these “wholly scriptures”. Hence a number of “thinkers”, claim that they understand “their wholly scriptures”, and are “the only one” that can explain the absolute “nonsense” texts that often appears in these books. This is the way they get power over us. We, the week and humble people, does not dare challenge, these vise men. If we do we will be dismissed from our society, for being rebellious, or weird, odd or having a to low IQ.

    This is the way the Mullahs, Priests, Popes, suppresses new ideas, new thinking and scientific based knowledge. All new ideas are dangerous and a peril to their society. As Paul wrote “you must choke their mouth”, so that we who have the truth, don’t get lost.

    If you actually read your Bible, specially the old testament, you will find “horror” stories, about death, diseases, blood sacrificing, killing of babies and un obviously paranoid, psychopathic god.

    Just listen to one of the ten commandments: “Though shalt not have any other god, than me”…?

    The texts in the bible as well as in the Tora or The Koran, comes from an ancient time, and cannot be interpreted into “modern thinking and moral, ethics”, this is a prove that god is dead, or not even ever had existed. The thinking from all these books is coming from an old “tribe” thinking –we –them, based of un evolutionary idea, we have to stay together and hit the other tribes before they hit us.

    Bugbear

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