Just a line. When saying, "Clearly, point 3 is the correct one", I said so on the basis that one would stick to the Society's theory as to the 144,000 and the Remnant. If being within the Society's framwork, then point 3 is the only one that can be correct.
The Faithful? Slave Class Substitutes Calculations
by TheOldHippie 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Earnest
Fair enough. As I say I know very little about statistics other than their link with lies and damned lies. But one thing that strikes me is how close the reported demography of this "closed population" has been to the 2% p.a. decrease that I proposed in my first response.
I am quite happy to accept that I am wrong. It would not be the first time! But the fact that the rate of decrease has followed the same curve as "an ordinary population" is quite extraordinary. Leaving theology aside, what conclusions would you draw from this as a population statistician ?
Earnest
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Earnest
Having mulled over the inconsistency of the number of remnant still alive I would like to share some of the conclusions I've reached.
The rate of decline suggests that this is an ordinary, open population and not the closed population we assumed. Up until 1935 it was understood to be an open population and the figures indicate that it continued to be so from 1940 onwards. Now while I accept the doctrine of two classes I don't think there has ever been scriptural support for 1935 as a critical year, or for any "cut-off" date prior to Armageddon. So let us assume it was and has continued to be an open population.
The problem is that it is not feasible that 144000 have not yet been selected in all these years. But that was a problem long before 1935. One solution which seems quite reasonable to me is that 144000 is a symbolic number. As the whole book is symbolic, the Lamb is symbolic, Mount Zion is symbolic...it makes sense that 144000 is symbolic. There are still the two classes but the heavenly class is not so limited in number. It remains an open population with Jehovah still adding to it at the same time as others become part of the great crowd.
If 144000 is to be applied literally then I can only think that the rigorous standards spoken of in Revelation have been applied. These are the ones that did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins (14:4). These are the souls of those executed with the axe for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshipped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand (20:4). No falsehood was found in their mouths. They are without blemish (14:5). With such standards it is not a surprise that there have been relatively few in the last two thousand years who have qualified.
Earnest
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dungbeetle
Well, of course it's SYMBOLIC, why would it not be? Why would their robes, the palm fronds, the blood, the Lamb and on and on be symbolic, and the 144,000 not be?
What gets me?
I hear something lik eonce a week from the platform, and sometimes the audience, that there are only about 4,000 'real' partakers.
HUH?
Translation: There are 4,000 lying JW's? RIGHT NOW?
"Oh, they aren't lying, they're just misled."
Why are THEY the ones that are misled? Why not the imperfect GB, who claim the door was closed, or the 144,000 a literal number?
"Well, the Socity says that the partakers are mostly Catholic converts, so they are used to partaking, and so they make the mistake."
So, you're saying you are allowing people to get baptised and become JW's who really don't know or understand the JW rules?
"Correct, well, maybe, I mean...uh..."
<gag> <choke>
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plmkrzy
7786……..2005
7784……..2006
7782……..2007
7780……..2008at 2%...............at 20%
7778……..2009........6224
7776……..2010........6204....................at 30%
7775……..2011........6174....................at 40%
7774……..2012........4313....................at 50%
7773……..2013........2156Just rounding off it's easier
....Age if born in 1914…100 yrs……...……..2014
........If born in 1924…100 yrs…………………..2024
........If born in 1934…100 yrs…………………..2034
........If born in 1944…100 yrs…………………..2044.........................It's the silence between the notes, that make the music.....................
http://ourworld.cs.com/Pwmkwzy/WELCOMEindex.html