Comparison Witnesses/Catholics in literature

by Naeblis 6 Replies latest jw friends

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    In betwen my infantile bickering with Farkel, and my crude shameless attempts to deshirt the lovely ladies of this board, a thought crossed my mind. We all know that the WTS loves to attack the Catholics. Is it the Pope's little hat that infuriates them so? Perhaps we will never know the answer. In the past they have loved to draw attention to the difficulties of the Catholics, in part to imply that this proves God is not with them.

    Now, with the molestation problems that they themselves are facing, the Witnesses are quick to point out that it is not a problem with the Organization, but a problem with individuals. Of course they were not so kind with the Catholics and their troubles. If we are to "wait on Jehovah" for clarification and help in this matter, why is it that the same privilige was not afforded the Catholics? Because God is not with them? How do we know? Because of the many problems tha Catholics have.....the same problems the Witnesses are now having?

    If the Witnesses succumb to the world's problems as much as any other religion in the world ie: divorce, sexual abuse problems, std's, teen pregnancy. How can they possibly hold themselves up as an example anymore? If God is not protecting them, if the "Truth" does not significantly make the Witnesses any better than the Catholics, then what's the point?

    I've gotten off track. What I would love to see is a comparison of articles. Articles the WTS wrote blasting other religions about their problems, insinuating that it is because they are false religion, compared to recent articles excusing themselves of the same things.

    Does anyone with a WTS CD want to give this some work?

    Cheers. (fulfilling his one serious post for the year)

  • Francois
    Francois

    I remember when the Catholic church abandonded its proscription against eating meat on Friday. The WT had a field-day with that one. It accused them of theological instability; it wondered about all the poor people who had been condemned to hell for breaking the proscription; it just had a great time with the Catholics over this doctrinal change.

    Of course, the WTBTS has a hundred year-old track record of theological U-turns, doctrinal flip-flops, strange teachings based on nothing but traditional understandings and interpretations of men. I mean this is the organization that warned of the poisoning dangers of aluminum cookware, characterized vaccinations as consisting of animal pus that never cured anything, attempted to market phony three-headed so-called "miracle" wheat, warned of the end of the world on several occasions - the latest in 1975, of course, and so on, and so on, and so on, and so on.

    The WTBTS is the modern-day incarnation of both the person and the practices of Joseph Goebbels, the father of modern propaganda: tell a BIG LIE often enough, repeat it as frequently and as loudly as possible and the great masses of people will believe it, sooner rather than later. And if you're proven wrong, blame the victims, the people you lied to; they "misunderstood," they took the bit between their teeth and ran too far with it. It's amusing really.

    I've seen somewhere on the net a direct comparison of the Catholic Church vs the WTBTS, and it's truly amazing how very similar they are. This proves the axiom that you become just like those whom you hate. Is an anti-proton really any different than a proton? The intolerance of the WTBTS of the Catholic Church is very well known, and it thus has become the spitting image of that organization which it despises so thoroughly. Strange how that works.

    Francois

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Never mind that, Heres a laugh for you.
    TYPE/ANTITYPE Fulfillment
    From the March 15 1968 WT:

    When Hezekiah saw that Sennacherib had come with his face set for war against Jerusalem, then he decided with his princes and his mighty men to stop up the waters of the springs that were outside the city; and so they helped him. Accordingly many people were collected together, and they went stopping up all the fountains and the torrent that floods through the middle of the land, saying: 'Why should the kings of Assyria come and actually find a great deal of water?'" (2 Chron. 32:1-4) Instead, these precious water supplies were tunneled into the city

    Thats the TYPE, Heres how that scripture was fullfilled in Modern times:

    In like manner, following the reactivation of true worship in 1919, the anointed remnant of Jehovah's witnesses, representing Christ Jesus here on earth, has paid attention to the supplies of Kingdom truth, as provided by Jehovah through his Son. These refreshing waters of truth do not flow for the benefit of the willful opposers of Almighty God. They must be covered over against enemy interference. But through the building of factories, and the carrying out of printing activity throughout the earth, whether above ground or underground, the remnant has fulfilled its prophetic mission as "the faithful and discreet slave"

    Dont you just love it??

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    One of my favorite Cartoons ever pictures two devils in conversation, hell fire and tormented people in the background. One devil asks the other, "So what do we do with all the Catholics here for eating meat on Friday?"

    Francois,

    You said,

    I remember when the Catholic church abandonded its proscription against eating meat on Friday. The WT had a field-day with that one. It accused them of theological instability; it wondered about all the poor people who had been condemned to hell for breaking the proscription; it just had a great time with the Catholics over this doctrinal change.
    That's just it, the no meat on Friday thing was NOT a Doctrinal issue, rather, one of Discipline. BIG Difference.


    YERUSALYIM
    "Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
    [Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    I don't hate the Catholics or Witnesses, its religion in general I hate....

    Will

    "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's."
    Mark Twain

  • MikeMusto
    MikeMusto

    *** w75 2/15 127-8 Questions from Readers ***
    ó Why do Jehovah’s witnesses so strongly condemn other religions? Do they not believe that there are good people in all faiths?
    What Jehovah’s Christian witnesses say about the religions of this world is not for the purpose of condemning people. They are making known what God himself has set forth in his Word. Their exposure of religious error, hypocrisy and bloodguilt serves to help honesthearted people to forsake the world empire of false religion, “Babylon the Great,” and to escape God’s adverse judgment. This exposure is in harmony with the Bible command: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues. For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.”—Rev. 18:4, 5.
    Hence, in pointing out the failures and sins of false religions, Jehovah’s Christian witnesses are working for the eternal interests of sincere people. Jehovah’s witnesses are also imitating Jesus Christ. Note the strong words that he directed against Jewish religious leaders because of their wrong practices and false teachings: “You have made the word of God invalid because of your tradition. You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you, when he said, ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me.’” (Matt. 15:6-8) “Look out for the scribes who desire to walk around in robes and like greetings in the marketplaces and front seats in the synagogues and most prominent places at evening meals, and who devour the houses of the widows and for a pretext make long prayers.” (Luke 20:46, 47) “They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger.” (Matt. 23:4) “Outwardly indeed [you scribes and Pharisees], appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”—Matt. 23:28.
    Like their Exemplar Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s witnesses call attention to unscriptural religious traditions and teachings, hypocritical actions and religious exploitation and oppression. At the same time, deep love for their fellowmen moves them to point all to the way of salvation, a way that includes cutting off association with “Babylon the Great” so as not to share with her in her sins and her disastrous end.

    *** w74 9/15 562 Do Not Hold Back from "Practicing the Truth" ***
    in darkness mentally include many religious leaders of Christendom who support such worldly standards. Rather than encouraging people to practice truth, they acquiesce in the pressures of the nations and the people in high station who condone wrong conduct. To support this statement, consider what a Protestant chaplain of a college in the United States said about adultery: ‘A full life can best be achieved when a man—and his wife, too—are free to engage in extramarital affairs [adultery], not secretly, but with each other’s knowledge and consent.’ Said a San Francisco clergyman in a weekly Episcopal Church magazine: “There is no sex act which in itself is sinful. . . . I also believe that two people of the same sex can express love and deepen that love by sexual intercourse [homosexuality].

    *** w74 9/15 563 Do Not Hold Back from "Practicing the Truth" ***
    12 The apostle Paul well described this type of individual in his letter to the Romans who lived under similar conditions nineteen hundred years ago. He said: “Therefore God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them, even those who exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the One who created, who is blessed forever. . . . That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.”—Rom. 1:24-27.

    *** w74 9/15 563-4 Do Not Hold Back from "Practicing the Truth" ***
    15 These types of people—and this earth is filled with such because of the influence of the ‘authority of the darkness’—are not “practicing the truth,” as spoken of by the apostle John, but are ‘practicing things deserving of death.’ The problem facing those who want to walk in the light, to be in union with the Source of light and his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in short, to practice the truth, is how to keep the proper mental balance in the midst of this darkness surrounding them and not be enticed away from the pathway of light. What, then, is required of one to keep the proper mental balance, so as not to be so enticed

    *** w83 6/15 15 Jehovah's Standards Help Us ***
    God’s standards help Jehovah’s Witnesses in ever so many other ways. In marriage they encourage love, respect and unity at a time when moral laxity and calls for liberation are leading to high divorce rates. Jehovah’s standards help Christian children to accept parental direction, not being quick to rebel as is the case with many of their schoolmates. Rather than showing resentment for parental authority and leaving home early, youths who appreciate God’s standards are pleased to benefit from the Bible-based counsel and help that Christian parents can provide.—Colossians 3:18-21.

  • Yadira Angelini
    Yadira Angelini

    I'd like to share the news about the Catholic Seminaries and the effort of some good priests to erradicate the roots of the problems... it is sad news, but never the less, the facts. The one thing the Catholic Church does not and will not have similarities with the WT is its investigation of the crimes of abuse for children. Not fear to take a good look at the roots... Of course, there are Cardinals like Mahony who has hired a "new firm" to help him with the "damage control" of LA Diocese... I believe he is more concern for his damaged reputation. Anyway, I did not want to offend anyone on the forum, but I thouhgt this revelations to be of interest, since we know the WT will never come up with a book like this one.. and we Catholics get to read whatever we want regarding the abuse for children; even to recognize in public and deplore their polices or lack of them without fear to be excomunicated. Lets hope the WT lets their regular publishers know the facts about them. Here it goes:
    PS: I edited some misspelling words, not all! LOL

    BOOK BRINGS HOME TRAGEDY OF SEMINARIES THAT REJECT ROME AND DISCOURAGE PIETY

    by Michael H. Brown

    Last week I began reading a new book, Goodbye, Good Men, about the situation in Catholic seminaries. For years we have heard the stories: of conservative candidates who are turned away by liberal seminary "screeners," of New Age infiltration, of widespread homosexuality. I am closely related to one man who left a seminary so he didn't "lose" his faith, as he put it, and we hear time to time from others who were disallowed from piety, true holiness, and such things as saying the Rosary while undergoing their formation and education (in one East Coast seminary students had to hide in a basement room while reciting it!).

    This we have known, but to see so much of it put in one package, with page after page of allegation, is still intensely disturbing, and while we usually stay away from "muckraking" within the Church (despite my own background as an investigative journalist, and despite the temptation of such huge, unmoving targets) -- and while we are wary of those who traverse too far to the right, in such a way as to lack charity (for we are all called to pray for sinners, not condemn them) -- this book is for the most part a dispassionate and well-researched recitation of facts that make one thing clear: many of our seminaries are in desperate shape, worse than most imagine, and if they are not tended to immediately they will fail to produce any worthy pastors.

    Are there good seminaries? Yes. And there is much hope. Seminaries that promote solid devotion are beginning to expand -- and in some cases are bursting at the seams. Moreover, the scandal should not taint our view of the majority of priests, who are so good and dedicated.

    But a crisis there is. Consider these facts (brought to light by author Michael S. Rose):

    -- One prospective priest was allegedly propositioned by the president of a school of theology in California who later became acting secretary of formation for Jesuits worldwide. The attitude of the Jesuits was to "affirm the gay life," charged one student.

    -- At another California seminary, the academic dean was arrested for soliciting sex with minors over the internet and distributing pornographic literature.

    -- At still others, whether an applicant believes in female priests is a crucial screening question -- with those who don't favor female priests finding their vocations flatly rejected in certain instances.

    -- Across the nation, seminarians are barraged with psychobabble, often ordered to consult with a psychologist when their views are too "rigid" (read: orthodox). At one seminary in Cincinnati, the admission committee based its decisions on the evaluations of a psychologist who was the Worshipful Master of Mt. Washington Masonic Lodge 642 and also a member of the Rosicrucians, an occult society! (Unsurprisingly, he rejected more candidates than he recommended.)

    -- In New Orleans, candidates for the seminary were reduced to having to act effeminate in order to get past screening. One was told to speak with a lisp. "The issue was never one of my suitability for ordination," noted Joseph Kellenyi, a former seminarian at the Mundelein Seminary in Chicago. "Rather it was that the gay clique had been given veto power over who got ordained."

    -- Homosexuals often practiced openly and even frequented "gay" bars during their years at the seminary. At some schools, a third or more seemed to have this proclivity. Heterosexuals who don't accept it are again labeled as inflexible -- and their vocations endangered. In line for Communion, one student testified that he saw others touching each other suggestively. (I'm not sure we need the details.)

    And then there is the education. Many of our young priests are taught that the Real Presence is a myth; that Christ never intended to establish the Eucharist; that St. Augustine invented the idea of original sin; and that in general the sacraments are antiquated.

    Denied in many of our seminaries are fundamental doctrines. Those who follow the Pope are considered abnormal. Indeed, as Rose points out, John Paul II would be considered "inflexible" and would probably be rejected by many screening committees in the U. S., if he was a current candidate. Daily Mass is unknown to many seminarians while visits to psychologists are strictly mandated. "They appear to be teaching at Catholic seminaries primarily to train seminarians not to be priests," laments the author.

    Incredibly, teachers are often not only opposed to Rome but to the very precepts of Catholicism. One woman "opened her first class with a complaint about women's role in the Church and an admonition that the men were 'wasting their time' studying to be priests, when they should become social workers or psychologists instead."

    A couple more snippets:

    -- During courses in sexual education seminarians are forced to view hardcore pornography despite their protests, and sometimes themselves encouraged to experiment.

    -- Crystals, enneagrams, and other gnostic techniques (read: New Age) are offered in the name of "openness."

    -- Seminarians are inundated with the works of dissidents such as Father Richard McBrien, Hans Kung, and Charles Curran.

    "My formation class is headed by two people," explained one student, "a discontented priest and a liberal nun who both support homosexuality and abortion issues, along with stem cell research."

    This litany goes on. It's a book that should be read by every bishop in North America and the Vatican hierarchy. If what has been delineated already isn't enough, perhaps sincere Church elders will take note of one case at a notorious seminary in Baltimore where a priest who wanted to get rid of superstitions about the Eucharist blew on the paten after Communion and scattered fingernail-size pieces of the Eucharist as sort of a defiant demonstration.

    This is how our priests are trained?

    Fortunately, there is good news. There is a silver lining. As I said, seminaries in a conservative setting are doing well. Consider that the archdiocese of Omaha -- one of the nation's most orthodox -- ordained 56 priests from 1991 to 1998. That's in a population of just 215,000 Catholics -- while in the same period the much more liberal diocese of Madison, Wisconsin, ordained a total of four. Or take Peoria, Illinois, where a population of just 230,000 Catholics in a conservative diocese ordained nine priests a year in that period, while in 2001 the Milwaukee archdiocese, with three times the population, ordained two.

    We believe the Church will not only survive, but will come out of this stronger than ever. We believe what is going on now, what started in Boston, what was even the topic of a talk this week between the Pope and President Bush, is a purification. We also believe we have to be careful that the current exposure doesn't lead to persecution. We have already seen indications of false charges against priests, and no matter what they have done, they don't need our opprobrium. They need our prayer.

    But for now, we must face unpleasant facts.

    They're summarized by said Archbishop Elden F. Curtiss of Omaha: "It seems to me that the vocations 'crisis' is precipitated by people who want to change the Church's agenda, by people who do not support orthodox candidates to the magisterial teachings of the Pope and bishops, and by people who actually discourage viable candidates from seeking priesthood and vowed religious life as the Church defines these ministries."

    And that's the bottom line: there is a conspiracy afoot, it's the root of much that has happened since the Sixties, and its architect is Satan.

    [Goodbye, Good Men is available here]

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    [see also: Pope alluded to 'demon' in light of scandals]

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