Would a JW Elder consider physical evidence?

by ThatSucks 28 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  crawdad2

  matrix,

  you paint a picture of a loving elder, caring about the child and justice.

  how come there is sooo much EVIDENCE of just the opposite?
  how come those who bring the evidence forward are being disfellowshipped by these so called "loving elders"?
  how come silent lambs is getting more and more victims coming forward who are willing to TESTIFY?

  here's what would really happen in your illustration;

  elder;........what?.........you are accusing brother phaux of RAPING YOUR DAUGHTER?........brother phaux is a pioneer elder, and goes on vacation with the circuit overseer, and district overseer....

  you can't accuse him of "RAPE"!!!!!! i have to talk to the other elders about this.

  other elders:
  we better tell the parents to quit talking about brother phaux, he has already called the district overseer..........and the district oversees says he will stand behing bro phaux, and help him get legal aid from headquarters.

  we better reprove the parents, and tell them to be quiet about this matter.
• 

  JT

  :: To even suggest, even jokingly that a child could be examined by an elder for physical evidence is to suggest abuse on top of the original abuse.

  Although I did not start this thread as a joke, I would like to apologize to any and all parents and other sensitive individuals if by starting this thread I have offended
  ###########

  please do not apologize for the post

  WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IS NOT BEYOND THE REALM OF WT MEMBERS AND ELDERS

  if you were to sit in a judical room with 3 dirty old elders as thier Di#ks gets hard listening to some single or attractive sister have to go in depth in terms of details about how she has sex with some guy

  i do not find it beyond the mindset of a jw family to approach an elder with such a request and the elder say in effect:

  "O.k., honey drop your skirt and panties so I can examine your anus"

  over and over there are cases where these men called elders in effect do just that.

  they type of questions that male elders subject females to in issues of sexuality go compeletely out of bounds for a damn window washer to be asking
  as i state we are back were we started THE SYSTEM IS THE PROBLEM
  and those who continue to try and support bogus system called THE ELDERS

  your wife is raped and these guys are going to have FREE REIN on what they can ask her

  this arrangement is sick
• 

  blondie

  Bob the plumber/elder
  Frank the electrician/elder.
  Wally the window-washer/elder

  I don't think elders like this:

  John the engineer/elder
  or
  Harry the lawyer/elder
  or
  Jughead the physicist/elder

  would be qualified to get and examine evidence in a rape (molesting) case of a child. It's not a matter of being a tradesperson or a college-educated person. It's a matter of having the special training in the area of law, medicine, and counseling specifically geared toward children. Get your family physician involved as well as consider getting a lawyer or legal counsel.

  If after going to the police, there is a need for spiritual counseling, find a person who is kind, sympathetic and perhaps who has personally successfully overcome such a painful event in their own life. It doesn't have to be a man (brother/elder). In the case of young girls or women, it might be better to go to a woman.

  *** w95 10/1 16 Parents and Children: Put God First! ***
  Some women today have similar problems. What they may need most is simply a listening ear or a shoulder to cry on. Often a mature Christian woman is the best person to provide such help. She can, for example, discuss personal problems with another woman that a Christian man by himself could not appropriately handle. Highlighting the value of providing such help, Paul wrote: “Let the aged women be . . . teachers of what is good; that they may recall the young women to their senses to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sound in mind, chaste, workers at home, good, subjecting themselves to their own husbands, so that the word of God may not be spoken of abusively.”—Titus 2:3-5.

  Even the WTS recognizes that in print if not in practice.
• 

  ChristianObserver

  Hello :o)

  May I pose you a couple of questions please Matrix as there are some things which are rather bothering me?

  If a *Jehovah's Witness* parent came to the elders to report that their child had alleged that whilst alone with another person, they had been abused by that other person - say a *worldly* person or a person from the Roman Catholic Church (or supply alternative *orthodox* grouping) or a person from one of the *unorthodox* groups or a different faith - a Mormon for example, or a Seventh Day Adventist, or a Muslim (but not a Jehovah's Witness), what advice would be given to the parent in the absence of any physical evidence?

  a Would the parent be *advised* by the elder that a second witness was required to substantiate the child's allegations before any action could be taken by them - i.e. the parent?

  or

  b Would the parent be *advised* by the elder to report the matter to the Police?

  Just wondering.......

  Thanks!

  Edited to add the words *Jehovah's Witness* to *parent* in the example given.
• 

  Insider

  Elders are not obligated to consider physical evidence. Elders are not doctors, lawyers, police officers, detectives or otherwise trained to consider physical evidence, although some elders think they are. Elders are required to judge a matter based soley upon scripture and verbal testimony of witnesses of actual JW's or sometimes, but rarely, even persons who are not a JW.

  If there is physical evidence of a crime, go to the government authorities with that evidence. They will definitely consider it.
• 

  Berean

  More than likely the BOE would let the police look into the accusation and allow the court to decide guilt. If found guilty, and the molester will not admit to crime, then the BOE would probably df for unrepentance. If found innocent in court, it would be dropped for lack of witness/evidence.

  The asking a sister about being involved in fornication was a thorn in my side when I was an elder. I didn't want to know particulars, but, the instructions from the Society were to determine if it was a habit, etc. If they admitted to fornication that was all I needed, then move on to repentance. I let one BOE, that I was on, know that more questions would not be tolerated since the sister came to us and admitted to sin.

  By the way, my wife and a friend watched Dateline with me. They said that Erica (hope that’s the right name) said "thank you God, thank you Lord" when she left the court, therefore, she has stopped using God's name and is an no longer a Witness. Also, that her suing the congregation and the Society made her an apostate. They both gave the impression that justice for the molestation was not the issue, she was just wanting money and make the Society look bad.

  When I said that saying "thank you God, thank you Lord" probably had no significance, that I change my terminology depending on who I am talking to and that you might have to sue for large amounts of money to get someone’s attention . . . the you know what hit the fan.

  Now I am getting (attempted) lectured in person, on the phone, and by email from several different directions. I let anyone who initiates a conversation know that the program presented exactly how things go in the Organization. What comes out in the Watchtowers is not the same as what comes out in letters to the BOE and verbally from the CO and DO.

  Happy to no longer be an elder.

  Berean
• 

  zenpunk

  I spent four years running to the elders covered in bruises. I was told to "wait on Jehovah". I finally stopped waiting and ran away.
• 

  metatron

  Here's the solution: get this ignorant organization OUT of
  the whole judicial business! Don't examine anything! Stop
  df'ing people and get rid of judicial committees!

  Let everyone with a conscience decide who they want to
  associate with. If you encounter a crime, call the police.

  it's all so simple

  metatron
• 

  Faraon

  Matrix,
  JW children must have trouble defecating, or having a phobia of going to the washroom. How many times have you seen children being dragged to the washroom, crying all the way?
  On my last congregation, one of the elders asked me why I took the children out for a walk. I told him that they were getting restless, and it was unnatural for children to be sitting down for two hours quietly. He advised me to use the rod. I told him that if I ever saw any of the congregation beating a child, I would report it to the police, as any teacher, doctor, or nurse is required by law to do so. Too bad I could not go into the ladies room to corroborate child abuse. (for some reason I never seen a father drag his children to the bathroom). He just gave me a bad stare, but said nothing more.
  I had many arguments with my sister-in-law about beating her children in Guadalajara, Mexico. I even showed her some of the witchtower mags to show her that even the corporation now disapproved of physical punishment. Nonetheless she was backed up by my ministerial servant sibling, and kept it up for years.

  JRP
  Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
  Nietzsche