What laws are on your side (in the U.S.) so you can leave quietly

by oppostate 18 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  oppostate

  In another topic "Just quit quietly - the law is on your side" there was a lot of discussion about how to leave quietly without getting tagged publicly as "no longer a JW"

  Here are some legal cases that could be used to show support for leaving quietly.

  You have to first send a letter saying you're leaving that specific congregation, and that you don't want them to keep records of you.

  If the BOE says anything against you here are some court cases that make precedent for bringing a suit against them:

  Baugh v. Thomas (1970)

  Bear v. Reformed Mennonite Church (1975)

  Guinn v. Church of Christ (1989)

  Where the U.S. courts upheld a judgment in respect to limits of disciplinary actions by non-profit religious institutions of their members and non-members.

  Basically if you withdraw from a congregation, you can hold them legally responsible if they retaliate against you for doing so.

  This makes for a situation where they cannot DF you for leaving the congregation.

  Since you aren't DF'd they won't make the "no longer a JW" announcement.

  ---

  http://www.pewforum.org/2011/03/31/churches-in-court4/
• 

  ptt7000

  I would like to understand the reason for needing the law on your side. We are not property, owned by them. In America people change or leave religions every day. These people really have no power, just the mental power we give them. Just stop going, walk away.

  I did this and stayed in my home 4 minutes from the kingdom hall and witnesses living all around. The majority of my family are witness still.

  I felt good not wasting a dime of ink and paper on them. You win mentally and emotionally, when you walk without as much as a good-bye.

  Just my opinion, the emperor has no clothes on.
• 

  sporece

  Sounds complicated what you outlined.

  Quietly walk away from the congregation, if approached by elders don't say anything that allows them to DF you.

  Move on with your life.
• 

  keyser soze

  Ditto what ptt said.
• 

  Phizzy

  I still think Ajax ' idea has great merit, yes there are alternative methods, but if they do not work, then this is a fall back position, you don't need to use your little Ace up the sleeve unless pushed to do so, so why not be prepared ?

  The conclusion on the other thread is that the legal position is not strong, but 3 window washers threatened with costly lawyers bills may well back down.
• 

  Ajax

  Oppostate-

  Thats a great series from Pewforum.org.

  And an interesting outcome in the Quinn case, in that, what the church could do to her before her resignation and what it could do to her after her resignation was significantly different.

  And Ms. Quinn didn´t even quit quietly while still in good standing - she hit the roof because of their manipulating nasty conduct right in the middle of a judicial process!

  Also-

  Interesting comment on the first page of your Pewforum link - about paragraph 8 beginning ¨A third type of case...¨ indicating that courts can rule on internal matters as long as they are not intricately bound up with church doctrine (approximate.)

  Verbally identifying one as ¨no longer one of Jehovahs Witnesses¨ is not a part of doctrine - just a sneaky little que to inform the stupid to begin something so distasteful that they really don´t ever want to discuss in public or print. Therfore, an issue that could be ruled on by secular court.

  Oppostate, I think you are mistaken that your name will not be readout for disasociation - you may not be DFd but the announcemant is currently made for those who disasociate while still in.

  Don't involve the elders - just QUIT QUIETLY. Any reaction they have to your having quit is after the fact that you are no longer a member. Look how well that worked out for Ms. Quinn- she's probably still counting her settlement money.
• 

  blondie

  Just remember, it costs money to sue/litigate. It's hard to find a lawyer who understands the ins and outs of the WTS. Yes there are lawyers now, but people like Barb Anderson and her husband and others have quietly behind the scenes educated them. Almost every case you read about ex-jws fighting the WTS, someone had to put up the cash to do it.
• 

  Ajax

  ptt and Keyser -

  not everyone wants to be driven out - some want to stay associated for the sake of family, grand kids etc. They can take ToMo3 up on his offer to be

  ¨FREE to leave any time they want¨ and still hang out at the hall with the kids and grandchildren.

  You are there now, as part of the general public, FREE as Tony says to chat and greet as you see fit - no need now to act like a cult member -you're FREE and can´t be disfellowshipped - what could be better than that???
• 

  Ajax

  Hi Blondie-

  It doesn't cost anything to quit quietly and in good standing.

  You showed (mailed) them your document when they finally decided to cause trouble because you didn't participate anymore , but you had already quit, and now that they want to make further trouble, you (as a member of the community, visiting a local church were your grandchildren attend) have to inform them that they have absolutely no right nor reason to read your name out in public from their platform, that doing so would be a violation of your privacy and since reading your name in public is not a part of their doctrine, yes there may be legal action taken)

  You can attend meetings as they are public. You can talk to whomever you like as you are not disfellowshipped or disciplined and now can't be.

  What are they gonna do without looking like complete assholes?
• 

  Vidiot

  Ajax - "What are they gonna do without looking like complete assholes?"

  Well, inform the congregation "off the record" (i.e. through the elderette grapevine) that, by your actions, you've DAed yourself, for one thing...

  ...but it could be moot, considering that most of 'em probably look like assholes already.

  x

  That being said, your idea still has a lot of appeal for me, if only because it sticks it to the more authoritarian elders who actively want to make an example of you in a JC (particularly the ones that think they're hardboiled detectives or hotshot prosecuting attorneys ).