by runForever 24 Replies latest jw friends
Sloppyjoe's nailed it. The need to believe is often monumentally stronger in humans than the need to reason and base conclusions on evidence.
Marx declared religion to be the opium of the masses and less than 100 years after that, Rutherford, in a fit of uncharacteristic honesty, dismissed religion as 'a snare and a racket'.
@navytown: I don't want to be the one who breaks the fun here but that's way too optimistic and futuristic way of viewing things, don't you think? We cannot even beat cancer and hepatitis.
I believe there is potential in stem cell research but more time is being spent on arguing whether it's moral or not than solving the actual problems.
Scientists are limited because of 'morals'. Imagine what they could achieve if the government let them experiment on human embrios (sorry for the off topic)
JWs will stop growing somewhere in the future, but those who spent their youth in this cult are too pathetic and desperate to trade the hope of everlasting life for nothing.
They won't admit that they are being f**ked over, that they are too plain stupid and emotional to deal with the real word.
Baptism will slow down, but eventual decrease will only be due to death, and of course some being df-ed or da-ed.
I respectfully have to disagree (partially) with Sloppyjoe. It's not just the JWs who are losing steam in their numbers. Worldwide, religion is losing its grip both in the numbers of people who attend church and also in the watered down versions of peoples faith. Less people believe - and the ones that do believe are less dogmatic than ever.
With every generation since the 1930s, the number of believers only ever decreases within their generation. 90% were believers in their twenties - by the time their in their sixties only 80% will still be believers. In the US, the 'kids' born in the 80s those who identify as religious are only one in three. And all indications are every generation after them will be even less so.
The JWs level of growth has been dropping since the mid 80s. Right now, worldwide, its only growing at about 2.2%. Barely above the populatation growth rate. It's inevitable that eventually more people will start leaving or dying than are being recruited. It's not a matter of if but when. I think the WTBTS will be around for a long time. But their golden days of growth are long behind them.
They don't have a sustainable model and they know it. That's why their so desperate to try and rebrand themselves. Hopefully it will backfire.
The point is not whether their numbers reverse or not. Although they have masked underlying decline with growth from the less informed.
The point is how relevant their message is, and it is obvious they are thrashing about like a drowning man gasping for the oxygen of relevance. Websites, TV channels, apps, hanging around with carts near public transport hubs....really?
Organised religion is dying in the West - it has been superceded by a better paradigm for those who choose to educate themselves. For as long as government entertains their charitable pretense and as long as the populace value freedom of religion, then they will continue to limp along. In the meantime they are caught between being an irrelevant cult niche and an irrelevant mainstream niche.
When I was first out for good, I really wanted to bring the WT Org down, to free my JW family, and to be truthful, as revenge for my stolen life.
Now I see that there is no way to bring it down, they are impervious to most onslaughts, some, like expensive lawsuits hurt their pocket, but they are not going to cause the Org's demise.
Even though the numbers must be falling in terms of real growth, I believe that really they are just about replacing those that die and those that leave, and even though the numbers may in fact go into "reverse" in the not too distant future, this will not free the really indoctrinated JW.
So we have to face it, our families are probably going to stay in.
It will gradually wither and die, but I reckon another 50 years is needed for it to be almost gone.
Of course, even at 8 million or so as at present, they are still an insignificant weird little cult.
They really do not matter.
I dont know about reversal. 1st world growth is on life support, I see a marked shift to retention, especially with the young born in
Phizzy - I agree. If it crashes it will be a long time down the road. I've given up hope of anything in the next decade or two but knowing they are in decline in some aspects is good news. Unfortunately, it won't effect the losers running the show of our time and that's a bummer.
They are using various means of keeping numbers up. For example, when you see a new peak in pioneers keep in mind that you can pioneer with 15 minutes of field service as compared to the 90 hours just a few years ago.
NY44M - "15 minutes of firled service . . ."? Seriously? Now that's a positive change.
I don't trust their numbers or anything they say or do.
The numbers are truly down and they will lie to inflate them and it must be true that the religion is in decline. The numbers of new ones entering are way down and the numbers of the children will continue to go up that leave. This will result in their downfall but its going to take more time and they will continue to do everything they can to survive. Changing dates and doing a reset will be one of the things they do to push their sell by date out even longer. There always has been doomsday religions and there probably will continue. But this cult is increasingly becoming irrelevant and so is a religion based on the bible.
