"UNTIL he arrives . . ." Why do we still celebrate the Memorial? CAUSES VS. EFFECTS

by Terry 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    Jehovah's Witnesses teach worldwide that Jesus arrived in 1874 1914.

    I think I must have MISSED the WT explanation: WHY do we still celebrate the Memorial of Jesus if he RETURNED already?

    1 Corinthians 11:26 "For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives (erchomai)."

    ___________________________

    Let's break this down.

    1. Jesus Christ 'returned' arrived in 1914 (CAUSE).

    2. (EFFECT) Celebrating the memorial of Jesus' death is no longer necessary.

    3. (CAUSE) Upon the return arrival of the Master (King Jesus) the faithful and discreet slave will be appointed over all HIS belongings. (EFFECT.)

    Matthew 24: 46 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 47 Truly I say to you, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

    4. Jehovah's Witnesses CONTINUE celebrating the Memorial.

    5. The FDS claims they have NOT been appointed over all the Master's belongings.

    CONCLUSION:

    Is the Society laying the groundwork for the revoking of 1914 as the 2nd Coming/Return/Arrival?

    ___________________________________HOW CAN THEY HAVE THE CAUSE WITHOUT THE EFFECT?_____________________________

  • tootired2care
    tootired2care

    Great point Terry, one thing you won't learn as JW is sound logic.

    BTW...do you have a damning Watchtower quote where they basically say in print that Jesus arrived in 1914 and is here with his earthly pawns?

  • bruh2012
    bruh2012

    Terry,

    the latest as to what "until he arrives" mean: (W10 3/15 27)

    Paul also helps us to understand that those with an earthly hope do not partake of the Memorial emblems. He said to anointed Christians: “For as often as you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives.” ( 1 Cor. 11:26 ) When does the Lord ‘arrive’? When he comes to take the last of his anointed bride class to their heavenly home. ( John 14:2, 3 ) Clearly, the annual observance of the Lord’s Evening Meal is not to continue endlessly. “The remaining ones” of the woman’s seed yet on earth will continue to partake of this meal until all of them have received their heavenly reward. ( Rev. 12:17 ) If, though, those who will live forever on earth were entitled to partake of the emblems, then this Memorial meal would need to continue forever.

    I guess this makes the "cause"

  • prologos
    prologos

    The first 'Lords Evening Meal' started with partakers having an entrenched EARTHLY HOPE. so, appropriately,

    The last of the last suppers should finish that way: celebrated by earthly folks. --When "Christ" arrives to hand over the "kingship" to the "Father", when the OS are perfect, when the "New Covenant" has done it's job (sin forgotten, forgiven) --at the end of the "millenium".

    Quotation marks to indicate the WT doctrine that would have to be reformed and can not, because they would also have to remove the talking snake, original sin, the bible, the works.

  • prologos
    prologos

    Another reason, I think, for the "Memorial" to be kept (not only observed) is, that not only did only "Other Sheep", (earthly hopers) partake in the beginning,but

    In the Millenium , only the "Great Crowd" (Big A Survivors) were the ones that never payed personally for their sins, kept owing that debt, that the "New Covenant" "ransom" payed for. which is the "CUP" after all.

    Particularly those that will "reign with Jesus for a thousand years" the 144 K, have to DIE a sacrificial-, a death by beheading (ISIS are you listening?);

    paying for their sins, not needing them forgiven by the "New Covenant's blood".

    That is why the present wt Memorial is such a bore, does not make sense:

    Those that need the "Cup of the Covenant" for forgiveness to escape death, dont get to drink it, (publicly).

    Only when we will see people living past 900 years will it be clear that sin has been forgiven, and that would be done, -the bible way,- through the New Covenant, because "unless you drink my blood you will not have everlasting life" John 6.

    Where the bible fails, science will fill thegap, and we are left to celebrate the heavenly festivals, the winter solistice coming up on the 24st, the spring equinox, wine under the full Moon, the sommer solistice bonfires on June 21.

    I am not endorsing Wt doctrine, merely showing where it fails, as it must, because there is no talking snakes.

  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    The problems are:

    Who cares what Paul wrote? What makes him an authority on what we do?

    Where did he get his info?

    It seems that what Paul was saying is that they do this until they are with him. That is until they are resurrected to spirit life in heaven with Jesus.

    People back then had the misconception that Jesus arrives or returns, but in reality, those who are anointed, die and get resurrected to be with Jesus.

    They go to him, not he goes to us.

    He means that they celebrate the memorial until they go to be with Jesus.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Jehovah's Witnesses were built out of the scattered rubble of many ruined 2nd Advent predictions reusing the same stones.

    The problem with insisting on contradicting the scripture about "No man knows the day and the hour. . " leads to some

    fancy razzle-dazzle footwork.

    DOES JESUS COME BACK, RETURN, ARRIVE, or just turn his head and look while remaining in heaven?

    This muddle of a doctrine has more patches than a patchwork quilt!

    WHAT DOES THE PHRASE: THE RETURN OF CHRIST MEAN?

    Where is the actual DEFINITION?

    __________________________

    Watchtower"definitions" crowd out the defining process diverting attention to indoctrination.

    _______________________

    ___________________

    ". . . In the Bible the Greek word er’kho -mai (meaning,“to come”) is also

    Used with reference to Jesus’ directing his attention to an important

    Task at a specific time during his presence, namely, to his work as

    Jehovah’s executioner at the war of the great day of God the Almighty.”

    Coming? Presence? Return of Christ? These are tossed in willy-nilly for a reason.

    Watchtower teaching requires confusing these terms with their own doctrine of invisible return=2nd coming=1914 followed

    by an excuse for JW's to go door to door for an extended period of time, to be followed by Armageddon.

    ___________________

    NOW IT GETS REALLY TRICKY!

    Will the Watchtower publication tell us WHERE it is Jesus RETURNS to at his second coming?

    Remember, Jesus departed and promised to RETURN. When Jesus departed he was ON THE EARTH.

    _________________

    RETURN--verb--To come or go back to a place or person

    ______________________

    Throughout the history of Christianity on Earth there has never been any confusion about what the phrase

    "The Return of Christ" actually means. But, the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses seek to destroy and replace

    the obvious meaning with an unnecessarily complicated teaching. This teaching became complicated for a reason.

    1. False date of Christ's return failed to produce the actual return of Christ! First, 1874 and later 1914.

    2. To cover up the failure of prediction, a silly"invisible presence" argument was tacked on to save the day.

    3. Once the invisible returned Jesus was argued, there had to some reason given for NOTHING HAPPENING beyond the

    unrest of WWI. Why did things go back to normal?

    4. The preaching work and door to door ministry was invented to fill up the deafening silence and inactivity of a returned King Jesus.

    ______________________

    The entire doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses rests on one tiny point.

    JW's must try very, very hard to distort the meaning of 2nd COMING.

    The Greek word "parousia" can mean either COMING or ARRIVAL, or PRESENCE depending on the CONTEXT.

    Jehovah's Witnesses ignore context and ignore "coming" and insist on PRESENCE to foist the "invisible" rescue argument into it.

    Why?

    Remember, for Jehovah's Witnesses, if Jesus did NOT return when they PREDICTED IT--they are obviously FALSE PROPHETS.

    To avoid being identified as such--they must insist JESUS RETURNED, but the reason you could not see him was (insert invisibility here.)

    ____________________

    Let us ask an important question here.

    IN THE DAYS OF NOAH the flood was coming.

    When the flood finally arrived (parousia) . . . WAS IT INVISIBLE WATER?

    No.

    With that understanding in mind, read this:

    _______________________

    MATTHEW 24:39

    “And they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood

    Came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming

    Of the Son of Man.”

    _____________________

    The Watchtower religion is built entirely on an ERROR in predicting the 2nd COMING.

    The doctrines are silly, contradictory, and illogical because they must bend everything to make that work.

    __________________________

    Think of the burden JW's must carry around lugging the heavy anchor of 607 B.C.E when it is easily refuted.

    607 "proves" 1914 or it refutes 1914. The Watchtower has to insist, no matter what, this date is true.

    ____________

    In the Bible, the SIGN of something comes BEFORE the event itself, but using Watchtower style reverse-definition

    we find in REASONING FROM THE SCRIPTURES:

    Following Christ’s return, some persons show faith; they recognize the

    Sign of his presence. Others reject the evidence, but when Christ goes

    into action as God’s executioner of the wicked, even they will discern

    From the manifestation of his power that the destruction is not from men

    but from heaven. They will know what is happening because they were

    Warned in advance. Because of what is overtaking them, they will ‘beat

    their selves in grief.’”

    ______________

    WHY does the Watchtower put the SIGN of Jesus' return AFTER he arrives?

    Because they have to cover up the fact JESUS DID NOT return in 1914.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Good questions Terry

    That " He Has returned invisibly" was always a problem for me.

    Sort of adds something that isn't in the scriptures doesn't it ?

    But the JWS reply to that question was because his invisibly earthly presence is here indicative to the fact

    because we are here preaching his gospel. ???

    .

    Looking from the JWS perspective as twisted as it may be, the reason they keep on celebrating the memorial is because Jesus/God

    hasn't started Armageddon yet and he's now taking into account who is of the anointed and who is of the greater crowd.

    The point being the late century returning of Christ by the assuming Adventists of the time and their self proposed dispositional era theology

    was fraudulent to say the least, but some people like C T Russell thought he could propagate it to draw attention to himself and his own

    publications. Its always interesting in how the JWS got started as a organized religion when you step back in time and reflect.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Personally I think the WTS uses and has applied the assertion that Jesus is here invisibly as a motivational tactic to scare people

    into the direction of making people want to serve god and be approved, and how does one show their devotion to god ?

    You Go Out in Service distributing the WTS. publications.

    .

    Just about every doctrine produced and held to by the WTS. is connected to the proliferation of the organizations publications

    and the progressive distribution of that literature, when one analyzes the root of these doctrines and its underlining agenda.

  • Separation of Powers
    Separation of Powers

    The MEMORIAL is a barometer....it establishes 5 fundamental things.

    1) It measures Effort made in the preaching work to encourage attendance

    2) Spring cleaning and upkeep of the hall and grounds

    3) Ability to discern how many are affected by the mental disease of "believing" that they are anointed even after the ORG has stated they are not

    4) Opportunity for elders to sit in a row and serve each other the emblems that way distinguishing them from the ordinary in the hall

    5) Chance to "guilt" the congregation, particularly the inactive or irregular who invariably show up for the fiasco

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