Great reasoning. Thanks
FDS & G.B. TEACHING DESTROYED
by The Searcher 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Theredeemer
Who cares?! I let the FDS take care of all of that stuff. Have you seen the new Caleb and Sophia video? It is so cute!-Typical witness response
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konceptual99
As the redeemer says....
Caleb and Sophia - yay!!
A footnote being all that stands between big Revelation book contradiction - who cares??
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AndDontCallMeShirley
It is a house built on sand!
You just described WT's entire theology, not just the teaching about the "two witnesses".
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Crazyguy
And lets not forget in Luke 12 peter says the fds is nothing more then a parable, jwS really don't do any research. I know I didn't when I was one.
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leaving_quietly
I agree that the WTBTS explanation here makes no sense. Timing is off all around. The "two witnesses" were given authority to prophecy for 1,260 days, or 42 months. If that was from the beginning of the last days (October 2, 1914), that would come to an end on March 15, 1918. However, WTBTS doesn't count this way. They count backward from the time of imprisonment. Thus, the Daniel's Prophecy book on page 296 paragraph 18 says:
"The prophecy is quite explicit as to when the 1,260 days would end—when there is “a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces.” In the middle of 1918, leading members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, including its president, J. F. Rutherford, were convicted on false charges, sentenced to long terms of confinement, and imprisoned. God’s holy ones did indeed see their work ‘dashed to pieces,’ their power broken. Counting back three and a half years from mid-1918 brings us to the end of 1914.
Is this so? According to page 143, paragraph 31 of the same book, we find this:
Harassment of God’s anointed ones climaxed on June 21, 1918, when the president, J. F. Rutherford, and prominent members of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society were sentenced on false charges to long prison terms. Intending “to change times and law,” the “small” horn had effectively killed the organized preaching work. (Revelation 11:7) So the foretold period of “a time, and times and half a time” ended in June 1918.
So, let's count backward 1,260 days from June 21, 1918. Does it result in "the end of 1914?" Not at all! It brings us to January 8, 1915. Another lie.
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AndDontCallMeShirley
L_Q: So, let's count backward 1,260 days from June 21, 1918. Does it result in "the end of 1914?" Not at all! It brings us to January 8, 1915. Another lie.
Actually counting always messes up these "prophecies".
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sparky1
Some of the 'days' were 'overlapping' and of a 'prophetic' nature. When examined through the 'eyes' of 'reliable Bible chronology' it can be confidently proclaimed that the 1260 days did indeed begin in late 1914! We can not know the exact day when Judge Rutherford and his cronies recieved their sentence from the Presiding Judge in this case. We do know however that it was only a matter of 'days' and not 'months or years' before this prophecy reached its fulfillment. How confident we can be in Jehovah the Great Timekeeper!
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BluesBrother
I came back to this to see if we really had something ......Maybe, but not a drastic flaw, IMHO. Of course it is all myth amd speculation anyway so it is hard to take it seriously. However, 8 million people do believe it and hang on their words so it demands attention.
First I went back to my Rev. Book first edition . That said that the 2 Witnesses were the "John Class" thus all the remnant at that time and the 1260 days ran from Oct. 1914.
The revised Rev book on c/d rom said that the time started December 1914 (no reason given for the change) concluding June 1918 when Rutherford & co were imprisoned for what turned out to be short time (symbolic 3 1/2 days)
Crucially to our argument, both Rev Books identify the beast that killed them as the "Beast out of the Sea" (Rev 13.1) which is the pre existing political system, not the "Image Beast" which is the League of Nations/U N O . I am not here to defend their explanation, just say what it is.
The New Wt article changes the 2 Witnesses to being "The anointed brothers who took the lead"....no longer the entire remnant.
1260 days still ends with their imprisonment followd by the 3 1/2 days from June 1918 to "1919" and their appoinment as a F & D Slave. This whole thing overall paralells the "cleansing of the temple of Malachi 3 1-3.. The brief one page in the WT article is not very detailed.
Confused? desparing? It is real baloney, isn't it....
My conclusion though is that the major plank of the O P's argument is not holding water , in that the WT have never related the beast that killed them to the League/United Nations....
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Vidqun
BluesBrother, you're missing the point. They contend that the "beast out of the sea" (Rev. 13:1) = "beast out of the abyss" (Rev. 11:7; 17:8). First of all, that's wrong. The "beast out of the abyss" would kill the two witnesses, not the "beast out of the sea." See Rev. 11:7. Secondly, they explain the "beast from the abyss" to be the League of Nations/United Nations. The "beast from the sea" they explain as "the seven major powers that have, each in its turn, taken the lead in oppressing God's people," i.e., Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the Anglo-American World Power (Revelation Climax-Book, pp. 187, 188). Yes, they have always claimed that the "beast out of the sea" would kill the two witnesses because that fits their interpretation. However, they are contradicting the Bible by doing so (see Rev. 11:7). One cannot have one's cake and eat it. One cannot change the identity of the beasts to fit one's interpretation. Note the warning in Revelation (22:18, 19) when you add or take away from the scroll.