Consider the "outcome" when elders apply the two-witness "rule"

by AndersonsInfo 105 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

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  Da.Furious

  This scenario is based on JW family - non JW family will behave differently, i.e. call police immediately.

  One minor reports an abuse to his parents, first thing the parents will do is call an elder who is friend of the family and explain the situation. That elder will then discuss with another elder and ask the parents and the child to relate in details what happened.

  After their discussion the elders will contact Bethel Legal department and ask for guidance. At this point they have instructed the family not to contact the police until further instruction from bethel.

  What bethel decides, i have no idea what the process they follow. But i assume they ask to make sure that the child is not making it up. Maybe they advise the elders to ask for specifics, or even talk to the abuser and check with him if this is true or even worse put all in one room to confront each other!

  If the child insists and the abuser refutes the claims, god knows how you solve this with professionals!

  The aim of this is to keep the peace and harmony within the congregation.

  The things they are not taking into account is that the child needs support not interrogation. Moreover, the above scenario exposes the child to confront the abuser which may cause more harm emotionally. Trust is broken and the child has to bear the consequences from his family.

  In the second scenario abuser has 2 victims they come forward, they get interrogated by the elders, possibly confront the abuser, legal department contacted and they give their approval to DF the abuser.

  Abuser gets DF'd and parents are informed if you want to contact the police you are free to do so!

  Both scenarios are true but the whole process is wrong, one witness 2 witness or no witness. Child abuse should be dealt by police and specialists not congregation elders who barely can sort issues within their own families.
• 

  punkofnice

  DaF - Child abuse should be dealt by police and specialists not congregation elders who barely can sort issues within their own families

  Bang on the money.
• 

  Pistoff

  Enzo is following his usual method of discounting all other posts that don't have extensive documentation, and asking us to believe him, without giving us any documents whatsoever.

  You said:

  "The CO, said recently to me that in such cases , court rulings, DNA proof, and other proof the police can discover trough investigation, will be considered as a SECOND WITNESS, and therefore a judicial action can start against the predator, in meanwile when the process in a court is going on this not mean that the congragation can not do nothing to protect the children."

  Proof, please, that a congregation has regarded court rulings as evidence; they routinely ignore what the courts say.

  In a Minnesota congregation, a witness sex offender pleaded guilty to 2nd degree criminal sexual conduct, did his time and then told the elders he didn't really do it, but confessed to avoid prosecution; they believed him, no discipline.

  A court ruling in the Paul Berry case found him guilty and sentenced him to prison; the congregation lined up for his sentencing and did not disfellowship.

  If you believe what the CO says, welll, good for you.

  But what he says has nothing to do with what will happen in a judicial meeting until the WT puts in print that they accept testimony of ONE person about sexual abuse, which they will never do; they don't give any credence to a single witness without backing evidence, as seen in the 2012 BOE.

  But the question for you is, WHY does the WT not just hand cases over to the police and stay out of it until it has been through the courts?

  Why?
• 

  Enzo

  Da furious and flipper: Thank you both for expressing your points of view. but I want to say about the procedure the elders must follow when a victim tell it to the elders and accuse another JW about sexual abuse: The elders must listen, not interrogate( at that stage it is not a judicial matter), the must clearly inform the victim that he must inform the police, and that nobody can criticize him or her, neither the elders... The victim HAs NOT TO WAIT until the local branch is informed before he or she go to the police.. This call at the branch is only to help elders to handle this delicate matter, but has nothing to do with the liberty of the victim to go tothe local authorities... But I can dollow you Da furious that there are elders who are not following this procedure, and are creating a lot of problems..That's one of the reasons whytheyMUST know call the branch.
• 

  sparky1

  Enzo, I have two questions for you:

  Are you an ELDER?

  Do you have a copy of WRITTEN instructions from the WATCHTOWER SOCIETY and its GOVERNING BODY to back up your claims?

  If the answer is NO to both of these questions then you are only repeating hearsay and expressing your opinion. Hot air is free and you seem to be full of it.
• 

  truthseekeriam

  Not only should parents go to police first, the org should make that very clear in their written publications. As things sit right now, more parents will go to the elders first because this is what they are taught. Sad, but true.
• 

  konceptual99

  Enzo,

  The elders are not instructed to inform any third parties. They are told to contact Bethel. They are instructed not to prevent the family of a minor approaching the authorities. The grey area is down to how proactive the elders are. It is very easy to read an implication into the instructions that the elders would only advise the family that they are perfectly free to go to the authorities if specifically asked. If they are not asked then they would not proactively let the family know. This can produce massive inconsistancies.

  Some elders (and they are out there) would not just tell a family they can go to the authorities, they would insist on it. The problem is that there are more elders who work under a misguided sense of loyalty that will go as far as to foster an atmosphere of secrecy, especially if dealing with a family that show their primary defference to the elders and organisation.

  The WTS have been very careful to do enough to plead an apparently open and transparent approach to child protection issues whilst maintaining the culture of "keep it in-house" that has prevailed for years. Even in Western societies this culture has been hard to break down. I dread to think what it is like in some parts of the world.

  If you have any information that is different to that in the Shepherd Book and subsequent BOE letters that have been published here and elsewhere then please post it. If it were there I think it would have been presented here very quickly.
• 

  Pistoff

  From Enzo:

  "That's one of the reasons whytheyMUST know call the branch."

  WHY must they call the branch? Why not just say, this is out of our jurisdiction, call the police now.

  I say it is because:

  1. The WT discounts and does not believe victims of child sexual abuse, or they think that they somehow are responsible for it themselves.

  2. They are paranoid (and short sighted) in their view; they want to manage the information about the accusations.

  Go to Silent Lambs and read 15 or 20 accounts; they are very similar.

  The elders ask: Are you sure this is what happened?

  Are you misunderstanding what happened?

  This short sighted policy, one of containment, information management and threats about speaking of the abuse, is why the WT is on the hook for the largest payout to a single person in US history.

  So you have to wonder: how is their policy working out for them??
• 

  flipper

  ENZO- I understand that the JW child abuse victim and their family have the right to go to the police. I understand that the WT Society instructs the elders to tell the victim and their families this. What I disagree with is that the WT Society does NOT make it mandatory on it's appointed elders to go directly to police as WT leaders require elders to report first to THEM and their legal department- NOT the police. To me this smacks of high control and damage control so that the WT Society sets itself as judge, jury, or executioner deciding for itself as a seperate entity as to the merit of whether a child abuse case should be checked into or not. This decision is NOT the WT Society leaders or legal team to make ! They are acting as their own authority and not respecting the laws of the land that the scriptures TELL them to respect in the scripture I quoted you in Romans. They are NOT above the law.

  The arrogance and conceit of WT leaders to think that they are ABOVE the laws of the land in that they don't HAVE to cooperate with law enforcement WILL be the undoing of WT leaders of this organization. And then I guess YOU will have to decide on which side of the fence YOUR loyalties lie
• 

  Pistoff

  Enzo:

  "I understand that the WT Society instructs the elders to tell the victim and their families this."

  Can you provide a BOE or an annoted elder's book that shows this, that the WT tells elders that they are to tell the victims they have the right to go to the police?

  The most recent mention of this is that they are not to tell them they can't go to the police, which is not the same thing.