The Present Truth is the Truth and the Old Truth is the Truth, even if they contradict.

by garyneal 38 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  garyneal

  silent: Your comments on what makes a successful witness vs a struggling one mirrors almost exactly what I saw in other churches where I managed to learn how to be a 'successful' Christian after leaving the IFB church and not taking too much of the doctrines too seriously. During my IFB years, I was indeed a 'struggling' Christian as I tried VERY hard to follow the church's teachings and practices. I've listened to other Christians' of other denominations testimonies during their deconversions to non belief and found many of them to be just as sincere and struggled just as much as I did because they took their churches' teachings very seriously also.

  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=deconversion+from+christianity&FORM=HDRSC3

  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA0C3C1D163BE880A

  In short, be a nominal believer and you will go far.
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  stirred but not shaken

  Strange how people will rationalize and make it work so as to hold onto what otherwise would be complete nonsense. A fellow elder once told me (this is when I was starting to figure things out).."we're still human and make mistakes, but unlike the churches, we correct our mistakes". I've since thought about that. Some of the teachings could get away with that rationale (like nonbelievers dying before Armageddon being resurrected), but when it affects one's health (life or death), financial welfare (no long term plan), parenting (stifiling education or talent) and general credibility in the community and workforce, it won't bail you out, especially when the replacement(s) is even less credible.

  Oh well, we all make mistakes......said the trapeze catcher.
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  silent

  garyneal: I think you've summed it up Gary. At one point in my life when I was quite young, I figured I would try and for starters I would listen hard and try to apply what all was taught. Nothing could have prepared me for the misery I was about to experience through my life. There is a British show called, "Keeping Up Appearances" which is funny as all get-out, but the great lengths Hyacinth goes to in order to put on a facade of being wealthy and well-to-do is hilarious. In the end, she is completely frazzled and it's how you end up if you try too hard both in works and in faith.

  Personally, I have a real struggle with the vague thoughts and unsurety of *IF* I will survive Armageddon. I prefer absolutes as in if I do nothing, I will die. I don't want to die, but it's a sure bet according to WBTS teachings that if I don't do more, I'll die. What's the point of beating my brains out and putting in tons of hours while digesting meeting after meeting after meeting only for the slim chance that "perhaps" I might make it?

  I have major cognative dissonance going on and it was a relief to read what it was I had. It would have saved me a lot of money in doctor visits and pills.

  Anyway, back to your topic on truth - if I'm going to surrender myself to an organization and a thought process, it had better be 100% right - especially if they are inspired of God. The errors they've allowed to slip over the years like organ transplants being akin to cannibalism and the January 1989 WT about how the preaching work would be concluded in the 20th century has shown me that they are nothing more than men just like you and me - rank and file types - who have no authority beyond what is common to anyone else. I could write the same stuff they do and publish it and it would hold the same weight as their articles as long as it was based on the bible.

  I would have a *LOT* more respect for their truth if whenever they changed what they've printed or what they believe in, they'd just print it or say it instead of some subtle nu-light that causes you to scratch your head and wonder what in the heck are they trying to say or correct? For instance, when they subtly corrected themselves in October of 1989 WT for the January 1989 WT about the preaching work ending in the 20th century, what would it have hurt to publish a, "CORRECTIONS" page either in the December issue or in the Kingdom Ministry that said, "We published an error in the January 1989 WT where we said the preaching work would be concluded in the 20th century. According to Matthew 24:36, nobody knows the day nor the hour and neither do we. We anticipate the end is close, but no one can say with certainty, even the WTBTS nor our writers here at Bethel, when that time will come. Until then, we need to keep being faithful by engaging regularly in the preaching work and being regular with our meeting attendance. We humbly ask for your forgiveness for the misinformation and Jehovah willing, we will work hard to prevent misinformation in the future." The simple act of humbling themselves before Jehovah and before the rank and file, admitting they make mistakes, or dare I say it - repenting to the flock - would have done wonders for their reputation and in a positive way. But they dare not because it would not only undermine their authority, but can you imagine the backlash if they made a blatant correction about blood transfusions? Holy smokes...their lawyers would be working overtime then!
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  Ucantnome

  Well, that reasoning can apply to anyone who claims to be a part of the body of Christ.

  I was just meaning i think being in the 'truth' didn't relate to whether one believes those who died at Sodom and Gomorrah will be resurrected on not or whether one has an organ transplant or not or even to a degree to dates that have been mentioned for armageddon but it relates to the 'good news' the 'gospel' evangelion.

  I think it came to mean to me whether one was a Jehovah's Witness or one wasn't but it still related to the witness one was giving whether it was door to door or in one's personal life and the way they were conducting it.

  I understand there is a connection to the Roman emperors and their messages. They were considered saving messages, world changing for the better and the power of the 'gospel' is and it comes from God.

  In my view one would only be in the 'truth' if the gospel is the same as preached by Paul and the apostles. If that is the same then i think one is part of the body of Christ.

  In Ray Franz book In Search Of Christian Freedom on page 539 under the subheading 'The foundation and Essence of the Good News' he writes,

  'What did the apostles and other Christian writers emphasize in describing that Messianic rulership and its effects? They consistently pointed to Christ's ransom sacrifice, his victory over kings sin and death on behalf of all mankind, the authority the Father has given to his resurrected Son to liberate from the wages of sin and death all those who put faith in him. That was-and is- the good news the Bible itself brings us. The Biblical good new does not draw attention to, nor is it tied up with, some date, whether 1914 or any other date, nor does it attract by offers of alluring physical and material benefits "just around the corner." It is tied up with and event, the event in which God's Son fulfilled his primary mission as the Messiah and gave his life on our behalf, thereafter being resurrected to God's right hand and serving as our advocate there. Only for this reason could Paul say to the Corinthians, "I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and him impaled."'
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  notsurewheretogo

  When a doctrine is released who is the author?

  Jehoover? If so then he is a god of falsehood since he teaches lies...

  If doctrines are from men and Jehoover then approves or refines them then dubs are following men and they shouldn't trust them.

  Either way, whatever answer, god cannot be directing them.

  Whilst the members of the GB are imperfect men, when they come together and IF Holy Spirit is directing them then they can never ever be wrong unless a) the Holy Spirit is wrong or b) the Holy Spirit* is not directing them.

  You can't have your cake and eat it, the GB cannot say they are being directed by god if they get things wrong unless everyone accepts the premesis that god teaches wrong things.

  * The holy spirit doesn't exist, nor does god, satan, angels or any of this nonsense but for purposes to reason with a dub I include it... :)
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  punkofnice

  Cognitive Dissonance!
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  stuckinarut2

  Great points made in this thread!

  Im saving this for later!
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  Magnum

  So it's the fact that one believes something's true that's important? Tell that to the grieving parents of the girl who believed no train was coming when she crossed the tracks.

  Also, Santa Claus exists because millions of children sincerely believe he does. Better get out the cookies and mik this Christmas... and don't forget a treat for the reindeer.
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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  WT has historically placed the blame on god- not directly, but by default. Afterall, if WT is guided by Jehovah™ in everything it does and teaches, as WT claims, then old "truths" that have been revealed as not being true at all are, in reality, lies. Who taught WT the lies?? God did ! So, it's His fault ! Being that god teaches lies, then he is not the self-proclaimed "god of truth" for whom "it is impossible to lie". By extension, this nullifies all the other hoped-for "promises" WT's god Jehovah has given to JWs- like Armageddon, a Paradise Earth, etc. I wonder how many JWs realize that their held beliefs about the wishy-washiness of Jehovah™ eviscerates their most cherished beliefs?

  .

  WT 09/15/2010

  " Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God's Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.-Isa. 54:13."

  As the following quote shows, WT uses euphimisms when things get uncomfortable, like calling errors "misconstructions"; or calling errors "new light". It makes no difference...a falsehood is a falsehood no matter which color of paint you coat it with.

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  In the 1954 Douglas Walsh Trial in Scotland, Fred Franz, who was Watchtower president from 1977-1992, was asked about the Society’s changes in doctrine. Here is how he answered:

  Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?

  A. We have to wait and see.

  Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah’s Witnesses have been following error?

  A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.

  Q. Error?

  A. Well, error.

  ⎯

  Douglas Walsh Trial, Pursuer’s Proof, 1954, p. 114

  FREDERICK W FRANZ

  The Question was asked by Watchtower Society Lawyer, Haydon C Covington

  Q. Who subsequently became the Editor of the magazine, the main Editor of the "Watchtower" magazine?
  A. In 1931, October 15th,as I recall, the"Watch Tower" discontinued publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page.

  The Court:He asked you who became the Editor.
  The Witness:And it said....
  The Court:Who became the Editor?

  Q. Who became the Editor when this was discontinued?
  A. Jehovah God.
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  Vidiot

  garyneal - "I've listened to other Christians' of other denominations testimonies during their deconversions to non belief and found many of them to be just as sincere and struggled just as much as I did because they took their churches' teachings very seriously also."

  One of the most perceptive observations I've ever heard (and I don't quite remember its source) was, "fundamentalism is toxic to faith".

  The fundamental truth (no puns intended) of the statement resonated very deeply in me.