by Chris Tann 67 Replies latest watchtower bible
"Evolution is a fact"
Stunningly ignorant thing to say- see , I can do it too. To go further, creation is a fact. But I'm a fair man,cofty. I'll tell you what, you recomend the best book on evolution that you know of,that is also written for lay people, and I'll read it. Then I will give you my honest opinion.
BTW, is it true that evolution is basically an impersonal, unintelligent force or process?
Bible is not historically accurate. Many of the events and inviduals are not even proved to exist which include historicity of David.
Jesus was a false prophet. He promised returning to his desciples, which did not happened. He was not Jewish messiah, and he did not fullfill criterias that Jewish people would have expect from Messiah. Jesus is not comming back.
Chris Tann - I have to take issue with your claim that you are a "fair man". You rejected the fact of evolution without having read a single book on the subject. The only people who fear evolution are motivated by religious superstition and are almost always wilfully ignorant of the facts.
The vast majority of reigious people also accept evolution and manage to integrate it with their beliefs. That is your challange. If you want to order your life around an Iron-Age book that is your choice, but you still need to accommodate reality...
I hope you are sincere about examining the evidence. Here are some suggestions. Feel free to start a new thread with any questions you may have. I have been reading about evolution over the past 10 years and have ony scratched the surface. Skimming a book and then expressing your "opinion" isn't an honest approach. Opinions don't count - evidence is all that matters. If you can show that there are any major problems with the evidence for evolution a Nobel Prize awaits you.
You should start by carefully reading these threads
Tiktaalik - A Brief Introduction...
The Greatest Show on Earth - Book Review..
Now here are some excellent books that are very understandable for non-experts...
"Endless Forms Most Beautiful" by Sean B. Carroll
"The making of the fittest" by Sean B Carroll
"Evolution, what the fossils say" by Donald Prothero
"Why Evolution is true" by Jerry Coyne
"Your Inner Fish" by Neil Shubin
"The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins
"The Greatest Show on Earth" by Dawkins
"Life Ascending" by Nick Lane
Chris Tann, take Genesis 1:1, if you consider that a prophecy, of what science would ultimately confirm, is it already fulfilled?
It has already been proven to be false.
The Earth was NOT made in the beginning, but ~ 9 billion years later, overlapping generations of stars later, and
Then evolution started.
later still.
Thank you cofty for responding to my book request. I will first read your threads then pick a book and download it. Yes, it is true I haven't studied evolution thoroughly, I have read wed sites on the subject, and browsed some books. But you are correct at saying you have to take issue with me being a fair man, because I use to tell people that it is not fair to reject the Bible if you don't examine it thoroughly with an open mind, and I see that this would also apply to evolution.
Six years ago when I started this journey of finding truth I told myself- no more fear; accept whatever makes most sense even if I don't like it. So I must apply that when examining evolution. I guess I fear that if God really does exist then examining evolution would be such a slap in the face to him, which I don't want to do. Also evolution means- this is it, when I die thats it for me. I get depressed thinking about that. There is a new book, I think it is called something like Darwin Challenge; by Bart Ehrman ( I dont know how to spell his last name) have you read that?
Kaik- many events and places in the the Bible have been proven accurate. I have read about proof of Davids' existence. If something has not been proven it doesn't mean it is false, must I remind you of king Nebuchadnezzar? Critics said the Bible is untrue because there was no evidence for the longest; but then it did finally showed up.
"when I die thats it for me. I get depressed thinking about that."
Many times on these forums theists will argue until they are blue in the face and it comes down to this fear of dying without afterlife. Afterlife gives time on earth LESS meaning wheras without it, there is MORE meaning NOW! When I stopped believing in an afterlife, my desire to improve my quality of life and those around me simply exploded to new levels. I have a much better loving connection with my parents. I didn't use to be inclined to pursue hardly anything positive before with a mindset of "well so long as i'm 'good,' I have all of eternity to do whatever I want so whats the rush?"
It's all about mindset Chris. You can choose to look at things pessimistically or not. If you can not shake a mistakenly depressive mindset from thinking about dying without afterlife, then you will most likely dismiss ANY facts that go against God or the Bible so approach this with an open and opptimistic mindset. ALSO, Consider this viewpoint please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxkqz7-DmsE
There is a new book, I think it is called something like Darwin Challenge; by Bart Ehrman ( I dont know how to spell his last name) have you read that?
I think you may be confused about that. Ehrman is an excellent author on the topic of the origins and development of bible manuscripts. As far as I know he has never entered the debate on biological evolution.
Ignore the anti-science websites for a while and immerse yourself honestly in studying the subject. You will be amazed.
There has never been an objection to evolution on any website or book that has not been thoroughly debunked by evidence. I have examined tons of them. They all follow a similar theme. Stop wasting time with wilfully ignorant and dishonest pseudoscience and examine the facts for yourself.
Thanks cofty , your article on Tiktaalik waz very good. I never knew it had gills and lungs; amazing! What is the creationists biggest criticism abou tiktaalik that you know of and how do evolutionists refute it?
Thanks sunny 23, good advice. Your plug in though is not supported on my pad.
Cofty- the web sites I had gone on I made sure were pro evolution. One even refuted WT books on the subject. I plan to download one of the books you suggested today after my meeting...lol!
Cofty- the book I refered to is Darwin's Doubt by Stephen C. Meyer.
