Obedience is conditional!

by BU2B 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  BU2B

  I was just pondering on this matter. JWs pride themselves on being loyal and obedient to the GB "even when it makes no sense from a human standpoint". What they fail to realize is that obedience is conditional.

  Even a childs obedience to the parent is conditional. Ordinarily a child should obey thir parent. However If the parent tells them to steal from the neighbors, or submit to some sexual perversion they would be morally right to disobey.

  If a military officer commands a soldier to slaughter innocent children, he would be morally obligated to disobey the order. The Nuremberg trials prove that everyone is responsible for their actions and "just following orders" is not a valid excuse.

  When Aaron commanded the people to tear off their gold and worship the golden calf, were they obligated to obey? No for those who followed along were killed as a result.

  When the corrupt preisthood in Israel commanded parents to sacrifice their children to Molech, should they have complied because Jehovahs organization told them to??

  Obedience is conditional and I wish more could understand that.
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  LostGeneration

  The Kings in Israeal point was one I brought up to my JW father years ago, I basically made the point that the GB had usurped the position reserved for Jesus.

  It didn't go well. The GB/Organization/jw.org is their golden calf.
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  prologos

  But, like the Emperor of Japan, Aaron was not held responsible for the orders given and followed, in blind, non-conditional obedience.

  we must obey god rather than men, or woman.
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  sir82

  In the account of David & Bathsheba, I've always thought Joab got off too lightly.

  David tells Joab to, in essence, murder Uriah. Joab just goes along with it, with not even a hint of protest.

  Try asking a JW, "was Joab right to obey David and commit murder? David was the anointed of Jehovah. Does obedience to the anointed trump someone's accountability to God? Wasn't Joab bloodguilty? If you were Joab, what would you have done?"

  And then watch them squirm.....
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  prologos

  and how about the posse that was ordered by Cavid to fetch Bath-sheba? The witnesses that helped in the cover-up?

  I suspect WT writers like to use David over and over, because they know, the GB tries to 'get away with murder' too. as well as their helpers.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Yes, obedience is conditional.

  In the case of Watchtower, the members are thoroughly mind-controlled to be convinced that their precious organization and it's loving Governing Body would never never ever command them to do anything that wasn't proper and righteous.

  In a similar way, most soldiers were never just started out with commands to slaughter innocent children. First, trust is established, and even when time to shoot comes, the officers convince the soldiers that the children are not innocent and there are valid reasons to obey.

  Pedophiles don't just tell their own son/daughter to perform an act. They work up to it, and then when it is done, they often convince the child that it must be kept a secret because the child did something wrong or misunderstood.

  Even Aaron was given a pass on the things the Bible says he did. Things are not always fair.
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  WTWizard

  Obedience should not happen when someone is being asked to do something that results in their own damnation or that of innocent people, or when they are being ordered to usurp land that is peacefully occupied by another nation just so they can have that model for the perfect slave coming from there. And I do not care if joke-hova itself is the one issuing such orders. If that thing orders me to throw away my silver and gold, downgrade things I got good quality on during the 2009-13 period, give up my computer, and quit using astrology when it is more reliable than the washtowels, it is right to disobey joke-hova. If that thing orders you to spread damnation to the whole territory through field circus, even if it claims to be spreading salvation instead, you should disobey.

  Now, if Satan asks you to do something, and you do it, you are doing more good than damage. And especially if Satan is asking you to stack up on silver and gold (it costs you something but protects you from hyperinflation), study astrology and other forms of spiritism (it means work but you are enlightened), or to simply quit going out in field circus (you are disappointing someone who was counting on you out in field circus but you are not spreading damnation through the territory). Satan and the Demons will not ask you to do something that will cause damnation for massive numbers of innocent souls--just for those who are trying to spread damnation through innocent peoples.
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  stuckinarut2

  Great thread!

  Yes, the problem is though, the GB and org in general is viewed unconditionally as God Himself!

  Therefore, they have trained the average witness that listening to the org is actually listening to GOD himself!
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  DesirousOfChange

  In the account of David & Bathsheba, I've always thought Joab got off too lightly.

  David tells Joab to, in essence, murder Uriah. Joab just goes along with it, with not even a hint of protest.

  Try asking a JW, "was Joab right to obey David and commit murder? David was the anointed of Jehovah. Does obedience to the anointed trump someone's accountability to God? Wasn't Joab bloodguilty? If you were Joab, what would you have done?"

  And then watch them squirm.....

  Excellent reasoning.

  The WTS Leaders are the equavalent to the Priests of Ancient Israel who turned to pagan Gods like Baal. What happened to those who followed them and worshipped Baal in the days of Elijah? Did they get a free pass? No, they were held accountable.

  Ask a JW: Will JWs today be held accountable if they follow commands of men that conflict with the Bible? Even the GB?

  And the watch them squirm......

  Doc