Modern Morality . (page 3)

Phizzy

I do agree that many men have a weird double standard when it comes to sex, and to other things in life. This springs from the Judeo-Christian view of women as basically just chattels.

But this is just an example, perhaps the most worrying one true, of people not having a proper Moral Compass, that is what we need to address, how do we get people to adopt one ?

When I married,only a few weeks out of my teens, I knew I was going to be loyal to my wife, and that I would treat her as my equal partner in all we did.

Such an attitude sprang from my own Moral Compass, beleive me, in JW world, over 40 years ago, I was damn well near unique. The problem is that most people do not decide for themselves what is right, and often if they do, it is literally for themselves, not for the benefit of others.

How do we counter that ?

LisaRose

Jgnat I do not know how to stop promiscuity I just wanted to get some debate going to consider if the free attitude toward sex of todays society is really so good . No one wants to have laws regulating sexual behaviour but if there are no universally held boundaries is it a better place to be ?

If you had universally held boundaries, what would they be, who would decide them and how would they be enforced? There is no where you can go with this that does not involve laws regarding sexual behavior.

I agree that some people go to far with the freedoms we have today, but I feel that is a lesser evil than state imposed morality. I think parents need to do a better job at teaching their children to respect themselves enough not to engage in casual sex and promiscuity, but at the same time I support the rights of adults to decide for themselves what sexual behavior to engage in.

Frazzled UBM

Jan - Is having a child with two parents necessarily harm reduction? My parents stayed together despite hating each otherr and living separate lives in the one house (one lived upstairs and the other down) and carrying on a protracted cold war which would occasionally becoming hot as it descended into a yelling match. I would argue that this staying together for the sake of the children caused me more harm than if they had separated.

As for your characterisation of male attitudes to women as 'damn whores or God's policemen' I would say that of course I would not want my sister, daughter etc. to become a sex worker or to be flimed in pornography but at the end of the day I can't control that and if that is a choice freely made (which unfortunately is mostly not the case - it is the coercive aspect of it rather than the shame aspect of it that to my mind is morally repugnant) then so be it. We certainly know that prohibition doesn't work - it increases the likelihood that the sex trade will be controlled by organised crime.

Fraz

jgnat

In the news in Canada this week:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/terri-jean-bedford-kicked-out-of-prostitution-bill-hearing-1.2761325

An attempt to criminalize prostitution, focusing on johns and pimps.

cofty

Anybody who yearns for the "good old days" is myopic.

It is a longing for superficial "morality" that ignores ethics that really matter, like fairness and equality.

jgnat

Your high court judge has an agenda.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10523138/Judge-Sir-Paul-Coleridge-disciplined-for-stating-views-on-traditional-marriage.html

Divorces are down in your country. It appears that the rising divorce rate in the seventies is what set off the alarms here in Canada as well, but truly, the numbers have turned the corner.

jhine

Phizzy , I'm sorry but I cannot agree that the double standard that many men have towards women is from the Judeo -Christain veiw of women . I think that if you look into cultures where Buddhism for example has always been the main religion you will still see that men have that strange double standard . I think that it just boils down to human nature .

Frazzled , of course parents staying together in a bad relationship is not good for children and some marriages will breakdown , but that is not always because of sexual infidelity. It is the impact of our anything goes sexually attitude on family life that I am curious about . No, you cannot stop any of your female relatives from doing whatever they want , but my point was how many men are happy to watch someone else's wife , sister , girlfriend etc in a porn film or in a pole dancing club while not wanting their loved ones doing that and why not ? Is it because they see the women at the club or on screen in a different ( worse ) Light because of their occupation and know that other men will see their relatives in that same (worse ) light if doing those jobs . If so it means that this so called sexual liberation of women is not that at all . A man taking part in a porn film is a stud , good on him . A woman is ... what ?

jgnat , I am not sure of your point here . Divorce may be down , but as I said not necesarilly because more couples are staying together , many are splitting but not getting divorced . Also if more people cohabit but split , which seems to be the case of course there are no divorces to record .

As I have said I do not know the answers but I am interested in other people's thoughts and it seemed an interesting topic to talk (and think ) about . I suppose that when I use the word morals I see that as our inner codes by which we treat others ,most people would not dream of murdering or stealing or committing slander because we realise that those things are not good for us and for society in general . Morals are the oil which oils our relationships and stops friction . If we have no sexual morals how is that going to impact on our relationships with each other ?

Jan

DJS

Jan,

Ditto to double standards being a part of every culture, and religion seems to lead the way in that regard. I have Muslim and Hindu friends; the double standard which exists in those cultures makes the Western world look like we are all feminists.

The divorce statistics are relevant, as they have consistently reflected societal changes; a more 'telling' statistic is that there are more people choosing to be single. Cofty is right; ethics and how we treat one another are what is important. I've avoided this OP because they always turn into someone's pet peeve about sex. Sex is wonderful, natural, amazing, one of the best things that money can buy (just kidding) and when accomplished by consenting adults ---- is none of anyone else's business. Attempting to place pejorative adjectives on normal behavior is much more of a problem. We all understand how and why that occurred, but those conditions aren't relevant in most societies today.

Cheating on a mate, betraying a mate - these are ethical issues. Sex between consenting adults where betrayal isn't a part of the linkage isn't.

If that is what any of you call amoral, then I suggest you find a time machine and go back to the bad old days. Or keep your private parts - and your opinions about such - to yourselves.

jhine

DJS , picking up your pont about when sex is conducted between consenting adults , yes that is not a problem . However one of the other things about todays attitudes towards sex is the amount of younger and younger children becoming sexually active . young children having access to graphic sexual material in magazines and online . Adverts which sell sex , music videos which show overt sexual behaviour are influencing the minds of younger and younger people (children ) . At an age when they cannot understand their own feelings and cannot begin to comprehend the possible implications of not respecting themselves or their bodies and making informed choices they are being bombarded with the meessage that sex sells , that using your body and sexuality gets you fame and fortune and happiness .

I am not anti sex , far from it . I worry that the gift of sex is being misused and undersold and that subsequent generations will have a skewed view of sex as a commodity - I'm runnning out of descriptions here but I hope that you can see that I am not in any way saying that sex is bad , it is the way that it is being portrayed these days that worries me , and I really think that women are not being liberated by today's sexual "freedom " .

It is not just the breakdown of family life that I am concerned about ,and I think that despite any statistics if you actually look around you in real life that is happening , I think that emotionally and physically generations to come may be damaged .

I know that I am painting a bleak picture and lots of young people are brought up by parents who do teach them self respect and self worth and maybe I am wrong , but I think that a subject of such importance needs considering and that those who have a responsible attitude to life should not put their heads in the sand and hope for the best .

Jan

jhine

Phizzy , you are right when you say that many do decide what is right for them without thought of how that will affect those around them , and that I fear will become more prevalent as a " do what suits you " attitude filters down the generations . As someone said "no man is an island " .

Jan

Modern Morality .

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