Need help talking with my JW mom who's now willing to "listen" to what we have to say...

by 2pink 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • 2pink

    My husband and I (both born in JWs--entire extended families all still in excpet for my sister) left the church 5 years ago. I literally woke up one day and realized it wasn't the "truth". I did not fade, I just left and told my family I didn't believe it anymore. My husband followed a couple of months later. We have kids, so this was a huge blow to our families. Big drama, messy feelings, etc etc.

    We've rarely spoken over the past several years except for when they come to see my kids about once a year.

    However, due to a recent major issue with my youngest sister (the one who also left the church), my Mom is now willing to talk.

    My sister told her that they take scriptures out of context to fit the JW doctrine. She wants to know what scripture(s) that might be. I've not given a thought to any of this BS for so long that I can't even think of any scriptures at all anymore. Can anyone help me out? Or point me to another thread if this has already been discussed?

    Also can you think of any other hard to deny reasoning points to bring out to her? Not sure how long she will "listen", so hoping for some concise points that can be made quickly, but will linger in her mind for her to think over after the conversation is over.

    Thanks for any help...

  • 2pink

    Ok, I realized I posted this in the wrong section. I just reposted in the "Friends" area. But I can't figure out how to delete this. Sorry for the double post!

  • Pinku

    What I have found effective is using just one scripture--it is really an atom bomb: James 1:17 which says 'God does not change.' Hence an organization that claims to be "spirit-guided" can't make changes in their teaching.

  • ABibleStudent

    Hi 2pink, Have you asked your mother, "What would cause her to believe that the WTBTS is not God's sole channel to "True Christians" and does not teach Bible truths?" Once you know what will cause your mother to critically think for herself, then help her to independently research the WTBTS and its doctrines - DO NOT do research for her.

    One Bible scripture that the WTBTS misquotes and it teaches to JWs as a thought-stopping platitude is in John 6:60-70. Simon Peter's rhetorical answer to Jesus Christ's question is to lead Christians to Jesus Christ and not to a place nor an organization. Also, if Jesus Christ believed in shunning disciples who stopped following him, why didn't he tell the remaining 12 disciples to shun those disciples who left?

    Have you read any information by cult-exit counselors like Steven Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visited his website, and/or watched his FREE videos on his website?

    Best of wishes helping your mother to critically think for herself.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,


  • LisaRose

    JWfacts is a good source for that type of thing. Not only does the Watchtower selectively quote the bible, but the selectively quote secular authorities to make it seem they agree with the Watchtower when they actually believe the opposite.

    For me, as an older person who was baptized prior to 1975, what was shocking was the very deliberate lies about their date calculations. Charles Russel stole his method to arrive at 1914 from another religion. I was told God led him to this understanding. I was also told he predicted the last days would start in 1914, when actually he thought they started much earlier, he thought Armageddon would come in 1914. And his calculation was based on an incorrect date for the fall of Babylon, most modern scholars do not think it fell in 607BCE. Then they talked up 1975 as being a likely date for the end of this system, then when it didn't happen they pretended they never said that.

    So lies on top of lies on top of lies. They have incorrectly predicted the end several times now, why would anyone believe they have a clue about when the end will come?

  • Iamallcool

    2pink, the kingdom hall is not a church!

  • Phizzy

    lam, you are right, old Rutherfordian idea, they are "not a church", or a religion I think he once claimed, until it suited him to change it.

    I love to call them a church in conversation with them, kinda lets them know I think of them now as no different to all the others.

    LisaRose's advice is good, combined with Robert's question, if you can get her to read JWFacts for herself on any of her chosen questions, then that would have far more effect than you realying stuff in conversation, where she may jump around and not really take in any information, as JW's usually do.

    Be aware that all people are different, things that are a big deal to me about WT (false) teaching may make no impact on your Mom, that is why Robert's question is so vital.

    She may have the fear that JW's have instilled in them of visiting such a Site, but point out that Paul who runs the Site says if you find any error, E-mail him and he will change it, it must therefore contain truth, not lies. A bit like Wiki, which the WT say is O.K for JW's to visit. You may find something on Wiki too that will answer her question, that would be good, but of course everything there is heavily edited by JW's, so expect to have to "read between the lines".

    If she really will not visit the JWFacts Site, ask Robert's question, print off the stuff and repeat it to her.

    Good luck with this, we often only have the one chance to get through, if we do not succeed, then the JW shuts down all reasoning and does not listen anymore.

  • Vidqun

    Their involvement with the UN and OSCE come as a big schock to long-serving JWs. Last week, my mother asked a circuit overseer's wife about their involvement with the OSCE. She answered: "The Society will NEVER get invloved with the OSCE. These are people that uses the name of JWs for their own ends." Yeah right, if you use the name of the Society or one of their affiliates for you own ends, they will sue the pants off you... Ignorance is bliss. One can also to refer to their stance on pedophilia.

    But heed above warnings and tread carefully. For example, after my mother's queries, she is not treated kindly. Some will not even greet her. That should tell you something. Those whose eyes are opened are viewed as a lost cause and written off.

  • Vidqun

    Sorry, double post. I did not realize their are two threads. Thought my first post had disappeared.

  • OneEyedJoe

    I think their favorite out-of-context scripture has to be Proverbs 4:18 (the light gets brighter). If you look at the context, it's contrasting the "path of the wicked one" with the "path of the righteous one." It's not talking about progressive revelation at all.

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